vitamin b6

[jeanlong]

has anyone tried taking big doses of vitamin b6?

I have been reading about how the body uses B6 and how deficiencies in b6 can contribute to all types of skin problems.

my latest lab tests came back very normal, so again, no infections identified that would explain these severe skin episodes, and metabolic panels are okay. I still feel intermittently toxic. This lead me to read about b6. I started taking really large doses. so my regimen now includes an herbal TCM formula (my own recipe), vitamins c and b6, and zinc. Still careful about a balanced and mostly organic whole foods diet. Able to do light exercise without problems. I'm not having systemic problems, but I am having intermittent miserable M episodes with M objects coming out (some fibers, some weird objects), severe itching, and really strange skin eruptions that cannot be explained.

I still feel like something toxic got into my system which hurt the immune system response. I still am getting new skin eruptions, many different types/shapes. After I'm on b6 for a little while I'll post and give an update.

[tcmgpt13]

Jean, you do not mention how much vitamin B6 you are using, but if it is in higher amounts there are known cases of nerve damage from taking this vitamin in high doses and/or long term. Some of damage has been reversible, but some of it has proven to be permanent. I copied one reference from a conventional source and one from an alternative practitioner. Both have similar warnings, so I do not believe it’s just conventional doctors who are warning people away from excessive vitamin use.

Is there mainly one area of your body which is experiencing skin eruptions? Or is it all over? One of the reasons I believe that this illness has a some type of parasitic component is because those of us who have lesions often notice that spring and fall are the worst times of the year for these outbreaks (say about mar-may and august-oct). I think it varies according to where someone lives. Just IMO. Even some who mostly just itch, have fibers but no lesions sometimes seem to follow this pattern.

Here’s some herbs which contain B6:

Herbs with VitB6: Alfalfa, Catnip, Oat Straw,Hawthorn Berries,Licorice

Here’s the articles which discuss vitamin B6:

Carpal tunnel vitamin B6,does it help or hurt you?

Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) sufferers who take vitamin B6 in hopes of improving their condition are wasting their money and may be jeopardizing their health, so says Dr.Alfred Franzblau of the University of Michigan School of Public Health (U of M).

The largest and most comprehensive study to date looked at the carpal tunnel vitamin B6 connection as an alternative medical treatment and found no coorelation between a patient's vitamin B6 level and CTS or carpal tunnel symptoms.

Dr. Franzblau also cautions that excessive doses of vitamin B6 are neurotoxic (i.e. can cause nerve death or damage) and can cause sensory nerve damage.

Unfortunately, a number of small studies convinced many doctors and other healthcare providers to either prescribe or recommend vitamin B6 supplements as part of carpal tunnel treatment,or worse, some still feel it is a carpal tunnel syndrome cure. However, those studies were flawed he said.

Vitamin B6 and carpal tunnel syndrome?

The U of M study is the first to measure blood levels of vitamin B6 and obtain nerve conduction studies (NCS) in 125 patients. The researchers found that 32% reported carpal tunnel symptoms, almost 25% actually had carpal tunnel syndrome and only 8% had vitamin B6 deficiency and symptoms of carpal tunnel or even impaired nerve function.

Dr.Franzblau says our main concern is that patients may be overdosing on vitamin B6. Some people are taking 300mg-1000mg a day!!

Too much vitamin B6 can cause neuropathy problems (i.e. nerve damage).

The Institute of medicine recently established the upper tolerable limit of 100mg per day. Incidentally the U.S.R.D.A (United states recommended dietary allowance) for Vitamin B6 is just 1.6-2.0 mg a day!

Mayo clinic states NO STUDIES have produced reliable evidence that vitamin B6 is a carpal tunnel syndrome cure or even improves carpal tunnel symptoms.

wwwcarpal-tunnel-symptoms.com/carpal-tunnel-vitamin-b6.html

Can Too Much Vitamin B Cause Problems?

The Vitamin Advisor recommended the basic multivitamin and antioxidant formula, as well as the stress reducer. Is there such a thing as too much of a B vitamin? A Answer (Published 4/9/2002)

We used to think that B vitamins were harmless because, like vitamin C, they're water soluble and therefore can't accumulate in the body as can the fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, and K). However, we now know that too high an intake of certain of the "B's" can present problems. For example, vitamin B6 can cause nerve toxicity although it usually doesn't cause problems in doses lower than 300 mg per day. (I have seen one case of a person on 200 mg of B6 a day who developed numbness in her legs. A neurologist told her she might have multiple sclerosis, but when she stopped taking B6, the symptoms disappeared.) I recommend a 100 to 200 mg per day trial of B6 (pyridoxine) for nerve compression injuries such as carpal tunnel syndrome, but I always caution patients to discontinue the vitamin if any unusual numbness develops.

I also advise additional B vitamins for symptoms of menopause, and occasionally to relieve the discomforts of PMS.

High doses of niacin (vitamin B3) can also cause problems, but you're not likely to run into trouble unless you're taking a total of 2000 to 3000 mg per day to lower cholesterol. At those dosages, nausea, jaundice and elevated liver enzymes can occur, a toxic picture mimicking hepatitis. These symptoms disappear when niacin is discontinued. You shouldn't take high doses of niacin if you're pregnant, have ulcers, gout, diabetes, gallbladder disease, liver disease or have had a recent heart attack. Anyone who takes this B vitamin to lower cholesterol should do so under the supervision of a physician and should have liver function tests done before the start of therapy and periodically thereafter. You also should monitor your cholesterol monthly and keep your niacin dose to the lowest possible level to maintain improvement.

However, if you're taking two of the B-50 Complex (the "stress reducer" you mention in your question), the levels of B vitamins you'll be getting won't be high enough to cause you trouble, even when combined, as recommended, with a multivitamin and the antioxidant formula. You'll be getting only an additional 100 mg of B6 and 100 mg of B3.

Andrew Weil, M.D.

wwwdrweil.com/drw/u/QAA50582/can-too-much-vitamin-B-cause-problems.html

quote=jeanlong;84439]has anyone tried taking big doses of vitamin b6?

I have been reading about how the body uses B6 and how deficiencies in b6 can contribute to all types of skin problems.

my latest lab tests came back very normal, so again, no infections identified that would explain these severe skin episodes, and metabolic panels are okay. I still feel intermittently toxic. This lead me to read about b6. I started taking really large doses. so my regimen now includes an herbal TCM formula (my own recipe), vitamins c and b6, and zinc. Still careful about a balanced and mostly organic whole foods diet. Able to do light exercise without problems. I'm not having systemic problems, but I am having intermittent miserable M episodes with M objects coming out (some fibers, some weird objects), severe itching, and really strange skin eruptions that cannot be explained.

I still feel like something toxic got into my system which hurt the immune system response. I still am getting new skin eruptions, many different types/shapes. After I'm on b6 for a little while I'll post and give an update.[/quote]

[jeanlong]

hi tcm - thanks for the details. I checked with my primary care doctor and he says to try it for a short period and since it is water soluble, as long as I have plenty of liquid it should be fine.

As a practitioner I have guided patients who have had various nutritional deficiencies. When/if there is a deficiency problem, high doses for a few days then dropping it as the deficiency is leveled off makes the most sense. I have had 2 days at 600 mg which is the maximum ever used for people with specific conditions which need high doses. I'll drop it down quick after a few days. If the body needs some huge dose of b6 to help it, effects should be obvious. It is my intention to be on such a high dose for only a few days then taper to 15 mg.

I had one of the weirdest painful M type episodes ever 4 nights ago. Suddenly I had a burning heat sensation. In the mirror the area under my neck got red and hot. So I got out my magnifier, then saw my skin had tiny shiny blue dots show up just under at at the surface. They hurt where the broke through my skin. Using qtips soaked with alcohol the pain was relieved when the blue dots were removed. The next day the entire area hurt and was red as if I had a severe sunburn. The pain was one of the most horrible skin pain M episodes I have ever experienced. The day after the skin started peeling also just as if it had been burned. Today the area is flaking off and magnification shows a few spots that look as if they might be or could be teeny parasite tracks. I have not seen any bugs or parasites in the skin or in that area that would account for this. Now the area is starting to itch. I have not had itching problems in this area before.

If I had a certainty that there are parasites, I would take a dewormer (herbal). Mostly taking herb formulas to help detoxification. don't understand what is happening, only that I have periodic M episodes. April was the last event that upset me with a bug emerging and was a solo episode. that hurt as if someone was stabbing me with sharp object.

mostly my right arm is erupting. this area under my neck is new.

There is zero biosynthesis in the human of blue material. this leave a few possibilities I can think of- it is a foreign substance the body is jettisoning; or there is a parasite that is making blue gunk, or there is a mutagen that makes the body produce blue gunk. can't think of much more.

I suspect there is a toxic material problem that has damaged normal immune response.

Originally Posted by tcmgpt13

Jean, you do not mention how much vitamin B6 you are using, but if it is in higher amounts there are known cases of nerve damage from taking this vitamin in high doses and/or long term. Some of damage has been reversible, but some of it has proven to be permanent. I copied one reference from a conventional source and one from an alternative practitioner. Both have similar warnings, so I do not believe it’s just conventional doctors who are warning people away from excessive vitamin use.

Is there mainly one area of your body which is experiencing skin eruptions? Or is it all over? One of the reasons I believe that this illness has a some type of parasitic component is because those of us who have lesions often notice that spring and fall are the worst times of the year for these outbreaks (say about mar-may and august-oct). I think it varies according to where someone lives. Just IMO. Even some who mostly just itch, have fibers but no lesions sometimes seem to follow this pattern.

...

[tcmgpt13]

Jean I have had something which appears to be parasite larvae come out of the skin when I use the Western version of Qing Hao called Sweet Annie (the plants are very similar--may vary slightly) along with my TCM formula. I powder it myself and put it into capsules. It works better when freshly powdered according to my TCM guy. So it might not hurt to try some herbal wormers and see what happens. Unfortunately none of it seems to control the skin issues completely. Or so I find.

I think the fact that it's lung time now is important. My practitioner has been trying to get up old mucus from around the heart and lungs. As he does so I have noticed I have a bit more energy. Coughing it up is no fun, but it is improving how I feel. Recently he gave me an herbal mixture which felt like it was attacking my throat. The itching was very intense both inside and outside that area and inside the ear canal. It felt like a horrible allergic reaction to whatever was being forced out. I had to take benadryl at one point. He had me make a separate brew of fresh ginger to alleviate the symptoms I was having as it also caused terrible heartburn. Anyway, sorry your symptoms have been worse lately, but given the timing I suspect some type of parasite could be involved. I have read about how in some parasite infections (depends on parasite) symptoms can be worse in the spring and fall.

[jeanlong]

Hi tcm and All

thanks for the post, detailed info and your good thoughts.

I am on b6 still. It has cut some of the frequency of itching but then today I had massive itching and weird new things popping out of this rash area on my arm. here are my 2 new photos, see URL

bluedotinskin

9oct-3colors

feel upset seeing new weird M objects and this makes me feel frightened. Plus this only raises more questions. Is this a coincidence? perhaps B6 making me worse? Or better? If b6 helps a detox process, might that mean that these weird objects coming out of the skin are a sign of health as in the body is ejecting foreign matter. I'm wondering if some xenobiotics could be from pollution, or endotoxins, or exotoxins.

tcm, I have been studying parasites in general, in the wild and they do flare up and the spring and fall equinox are triggers for weather that helps them. Animals in the wild have to adapt to them every year and owners of livestock have to treat at the same time of year routinely. It would be stupid to think we humans are immune. With this in mind, today I have picked some pomegrates. I'll brew decoctions with honey (recipe based on tcm Chinese ideas). For those who are interested the recipe is:

10 gm pomegrante rind
10 gm raw pumpkin seed

make TCM style herb broth, mix with local raw honey and drink the broth warm right after a meal near spring and fall equinox. Do every day for week. Parasites do not like this mixture and are more likely to leave the intestines with this mixture.

best regards,
Jean

Originally Posted by tcmgpt13

Jean I have had something which appears to be parasite larvae come out of the skin when I use the Western version of Qing Hao called Sweet Annie (the plants are very similar--may vary slightly) along with my TCM formula. I powder it myself and put it into capsules. It works better when freshly powdered according to my TCM guy. So it might not hurt to try some herbal wormers and see what happens. Unfortunately none of it seems to control the skin issues completely. Or so I find.

I think the fact that it's lung time now is important. My practitioner has been trying to get up old mucus from around the heart and lungs. As he does so I have noticed I have a bit more energy. Coughing it up is no fun, but it is improving how I feel. Recently he gave me an herbal mixture which felt like it was attacking my throat. The itching was very intense both inside and outside that area and inside the ear canal. It felt like a horrible allergic reaction to whatever was being forced out. I had to take benadryl at one point. He had me make a separate brew of fresh ginger to alleviate the symptoms I was having as it also caused terrible heartburn. Anyway, sorry your symptoms have been worse lately, but given the timing I suspect some type of parasite could be involved. I have read about how in some parasite infections (depends on parasite) symptoms can be worse in the spring and fall.

[jeanlong]

update:

took a few days at very high doses, several 100 mg capsules of B6. started at 600 mg perday. then tapered down, and stopped them and dropped back to 15 mg daily. finished an entire bottle of 100 mg caps already.

no change seen while on the megadoses, so stopped. i figure if it would have had an impact, it would have happened then or shortly after. oh well, no harm done and it was a worthwhile experiment from my view.

still erupting strange dot shaped things. today's is some weird shiny highly reflective object. the massive blue dots eruptions have stopped, and the u-shiped wiry things gone. but still having itchy spots with color dot things coming out.

any helpful thoughts welcome. I really do not understand what is going on.