How I got the white frass to stop coming out of my scalp and skin

[skylark99]

I was thinking a few weeks ago about the composition of what is coming out of my scalp and skin (for the last 2 years). I asked Jo why no one has ever done a chemical analysis of this sticky glop that is coming out of the skin and scalp of so many of us.

It has been my unfortunate experience that every time I asked a doctor to look at what this was, they all automatically assumed that I was talking 'parasites', mites, filaria, whatever.

I admit that early in my experience with Morgellons these were the only things that I could think of as responsible for my symptoms. Indeed -- my thinking that this was the root of my skin and scalp problems began with a mis-diagnosis of scabies, from not one but two doctors. However, after Jo took micrographs last year of this "frass" as I call it, I understood that it was nothing that was alive or had been alive. But what it was exactly, and how it was occurring, had me baffled.

I did not discount possible co-infections with parasites; I had taken several courses of mebendazole and other anti-parasitical medications during the first year with Morgellons, and observed 'results'. However, I had taken enough anti-parasite medications to treat a whole zoo, and something was still coming out of my skin, so logically, I deducted that there was another issue left un-addressed.

In the last year, I found myself going to many doctors and asking them to find out what this was that was coming out of my skin; I was clear in my choice of words; "I would like to know what this is that is coming out of my skin".
As is so often the case with us, the first doctor's mis-diagnosis of delusions influenced all of them; none would look at my skin or take me seriously. Every time I started talking about my symptoms, their eyes would glaze over and they would become evasive. The last one refused a skin biopsy, and made it plain that the routine blood panel run the week before was all that was necessary. There would be no further investigations, no blood work, no further discussion at all; the appointment had come to an end, I was told. A polite way of telling me to go away and that nothing I was saying was believed.
In some ways, it is a big relief to finally accept that I am on my own to try and get well.

After that last doctor appointment I began to think that it must be some sort of calcium. How and why I thought this, I am not sure. Maybe past animal work, maybe all my years of continuing and worsening bone and joint problems; not sure. How calcium might be being excreted by my skin was not clear, either.
However, I had (in the dim past) worked with an iguana that was experiencing osteomalacia. Using homeopathic Calc carb, supplementing with bone meal and veg and fruit high in phosphorus and adding a sunlamp to the aquarium, resolved the problem in a month.

When Frito started writing about methylation, I sat up and took notice. The KREBS cycle was something that was not known when I was at college, and biochem was a struggle for me. But my Lyme doc in Manchester had said something in 2009 that stuck: there are toxicity issues, he said, with calcium being trapped within the cells, and oxygen, too, the result being mitochondrial illness; we see magnesium deficiencies and other problems with the cell working properly.

There had been a lot of threads about using various food-based liquid solutions to rid the skin of this frass. Some of them were acidic, like GSE. But if calcium was building up within my cells, I wanted something that could clean out the inside of the cells, not just remove it from my skin. I wanted to truncate the process of it having to be excreted from my skin, and flush it out of the individual cells and excrete it through kidneys and intestines.

Calcium. Oxygen. Anti-oxidants. Vitamin C, I thought. That has to be it.
I am not good at chemistry, let alone biochemistry. Jo and Frito would run rings around me ... and they do (and you both can slap me later). But what I am good at is hunches, and I tend to listen to them because they often pan out.

So I began a Vitamin C experiment.

The only store that was open when I was compelled to actually go out and buy some Vit C, was a grocery store. I had been thinking in a kind of subliminal way about Vit C for a couple of weeks, but at each foray into the shops I would forget to buy some. All I could get in the early hours of the evening was ascorbic acid with citrus bioflavinoids and rose hip powder. 500 mg slow-release tablets.

I decided to take one, and put one in my mouth as a lozenge.
Half an hour later, the frass coming from my skin stopped. Hmm.
I kept on, noting that after three to five hours of taking two tablets, the frass from my skin and scalp would start up again. I did this for 5 days, seeing the same results. I also noticed that I was actually sleeping through the night, and sleeping profoundly well. My vision was clearing, the blur was going away. My sense of smell was returning, as well.
On days five and six, I had missed the afternoon doses because I was doing some work and had not taken any tablets with me. I noticed that the frass was more frequent and that there was a lot more of it.
On day 7 I got back on track. On day 8, the frass stopped completely.
On day 9 there was a small return of frass, a few pieces of this matter falling out of my face.
My skin was clearer by this time. In the past, I had noticed that when frass fell out of my scalp or out of the skin of my face and landed on my hands or arms, that the frass was almost immediately re-absorbed by my skin. I found this phenomenon quite disturbing. By day 9 I noticed that when frass landed on my skin, it simply fell off. I do not understand why, but am very pleased.
I also noticed that less of the white frass under the skin of my hands was coming to the surface. I also do not understand this, but it is a great relief.
I also noticed on day 9 that I was once again sweating. Not only that, my sweat actually had a smell. I had noticed in the last two years of Morgellons, that I had no body odor; I attributed this to frequent showers and changes of clothes.
Again on day 10 the frass stopped completely. I broke out in a scattering of pimples, face, legs, etc, very uncommon for me; I had never had adolescent acne. The head sweats began on the night of day 10------ my scalp felt blissfully free of the tightness that has plagued me for two years; at times my scalp felt like a tight wool cap.

Today is day 13. My skin is back to normal. No frass at all for three days. My scalp feels wonderful. I take much joy in actually running my fingers through my hair and massaging my scalp. All the places on my hands and where frass was being excreted and making my skin broken have now healed. There is no longer this white frass falling into my eyes; such a relief.

This is not without some other layer of this illness surfacing.
I think that my immune system has begun to awaken. I have had a slight fever and sensation of a brewing infection for two days. My kidneys are slightly painful (hmm); my thyroid was very painful for a few hours today but settled after I ate some seaweed (for the iodine). I continue to have some joint pain, but it comes and goes. I do have the "de-tox' headache. If I do develop an infection, I will have to tackle it on my own; I have no doctor anymore. I have given them up like a bad addiction.

This is only the beginning. There is supplementation to figure out; for me, it will be guesswork, as no doctor is willing to do any testing. But I am so happy with this initial result of having this awful 'shedding' stop, that I now feel that I have made a beginning of sorts. Yes, Frito I did get some B Vit, the right kind, but it is way too early to think about adding it in to the mix (See, I do take your experiences seriously!).

I also wanted to say one other thing.
Megan recently posted that her endoscopy results revealed dark speckles in the digestive tract.
I had noticed during my two years with Morgellons symptoms, black specks in my stools. I was uncertain if these were some sort of parasites or eggs. I had also contemplated that they might actually be blood, although that did not make sense, because blood in the stools will render the stools to have a tar-like consistency. It never occurred to me that this might be blood from my stomach --which when it occurs, gives the appearance of coffee-grounds in the stools. And yet, this is what I have been seeing for two years. That too, is now resolving after almost 2 weeks of Vit C; I still see an occasional fleck, but nothing like the great amount I observed when I was at my most ill.

If anyone would like to weigh in with comments about the use of Vit C and how it might play a part in the resolution of some of this illness, I would like to read your thoughts. Also, I am aware that for a while quite a few people with Lyme were doing Vit C and salt; some had good results, others gave it up as it apparently gave no improvement to their symptoms. I am wondering why I have had a good result with Vit C, while others doing the C/salt protocol showed no improvement. Not sure if the fact that I tested negative for Lyme on two occasions would cause a different result.

Another member here is trialing the Vit C 'experiment'. I hope that she will post her results whatever they may be so that we can get an idea if this is something useful or just an anomaly.

Sorry for the length of this.

[Janice]

I was on vit c iv drip once a week for about 8 or 9 months, I would alternate some times with glutathione. This was infact for my hep c , but my doc thought it would address my skin issues as well. It did decrease my viral load quite a bit, (hooray) but alas, my skin though temporarily... helping.... vit c was not a cure for my skin/morgellons.

[skylark99]

That is really interesting that you should mention Vit C drips weekly.

Last year (year 1 of Morgellons) I tried the Poor Mans Protocol (PMP) as mentioned by mr common sense. Vit C and glut were in there, with a lot of other things. Of these, I took them once or twice a day, but after about a month, saw no improvement, so gave it up.

When Frito mentioned anti-oxidents, and doing a compplete detox first, I took note. But she also said that adding all this other nutritional supplements would get you into trouble, because the methylation cycle had to be done in a certain order. Not something that can be rushed. The detox must be done first, otherwise the body cannot handle the other supplements that follow, and trouble ensues when trying to rush it.

I now wonder two things: if the PMP did not cause any results because it was too much too soon.
Also, if taking Vit C more frequently than once a week or twice a day is what is causing the reaction that I am experiencing.

[Janice]

You have to get some glutithion so you can absorb the vit c . I became pretty sick at first until the glutathione was added.

[Katinka]

................

[skylark99]

Thanks for that, Ladies.

I understood from another member that (oral) supplementing with gutathione would not work, as (most of the) glut is destroyed in the stomach during digestion, and it does not reach its target. That is why NAC N-acetyl cystine is better; as it is a precursor of glutathione, the body uses it to make glut.
Good training, I would guess.

It didn't help me when I took NAC before, but obviously, I did not take it for several months, either. And I was not taking 3-5 gm of Vit C every day either.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Quote Katinka:
PS: I took NAC/Vit C BEFORE starting the Lyme/Morg protocol but kept adding these simultaneously to the prescribed meds. After 8 weeks my CD57 levels were up from 80 to 297!
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

That is an amazing result. Really.

Are you saying that after eight weeks of (only the) Vit C/NAC your CD levels were up, or
after 8 weeks of the Lyme/Morgellons protocol your CD levels were up?

Would you say more about the Lyme/Morg protocol, please?
I am guessing you are refering to the treatments being looked at or used at the Ausburg Borreliosis Clinic?
I am also guessing that this Lyme/Morg protocol you are referring to is different for everyone, and people need to be tested for bacterias, fungi, rickettesials, etc --and the results of those tests make the basis for that person's Lyme/Morg protocol?

Thank you.

[fritolay66]

Hi skylark,

I am so sorry, but I ignored this thread due to the title and I shouldn't have. So after reading the threads, I hope you all don't mind me making some comments and contributing to the discussion.

I admit that early in my experience with Morgellons these were the only things that I could think of as responsible for my symptoms. Indeed -- my thinking that this was the root of my skin and scalp problems began with a mis-diagnosis of scabies, from not one but two doctors. However, after Jo took micrographs last year of this "frass" as I call it, I understood that it was nothing that was alive or had been alive. But what it was exactly, and how it was occurring, had me baffled.

I went through the exact same process!! It isn't alive, and it wasn't bugs coming out of my skin. It was then I had one of the biggest turnarounds in my disease. But it sure did feel like bugs in the beginning. It is here the neurotransmitters and cytokines come in. I find it interesting the diagnosis' of scabies. Most of us in the beginning also had the same experience, and it was this type of experience coupled with the symptoms that keep people thinking it is bugs as well as improvements associated with the cytokine control of the parasite pharma. So they have propagated the DOP diagnosis, whether it be inadvertently or purposefully. Doesn't really matter which, all that is important at this point is the result. And it has been so far reaching as to stop any signifigant research into this systemic disease.

After that last doctor appointment I began to think that it must be some sort of calcium. How and why I thought this, I am not sure. Maybe past animal work, maybe all my years of continuing and worsening bone and joint problems; not sure. How calcium might be being excreted by my skin was not clear, either.
However, I had (in the dim past) worked with an iguana that was experiencing osteomalacia. Using homeopathic Calc carb, supplementing with bone meal and veg and fruit high in phosphorus and adding a sunlamp to the aquarium, resolved the problem in a month.

Yes, yes, yes!! Damn straight we are precipitating calcium through our skin. I gave part of the process in my post to Mark Darrah. Although I didn't give all of what I suspect as I am currently looking for "proof", kind of checking my list twice as I have found all of this leads to a certain pathway within the Krebbs cycle. And by saying, "all of this" I mean, I have found a single point in which many of the symptoms of morgellons can be associated with. I have been working on a paper but it will need to be edited prior to posting.

I find it interesting that you also came up with supplementation of calcium carbonate. I had avoided any type of calcium supplementation for quite awhile due to my own observations of abnormal calcium control. Last month, I was finally ready to make some changes to my own protocol, and I added EDTA amongst other things. I have already outlined the reaction of my immune system and my methylation capacity in other threads. That being "going through the roof".

I can't tell you how relieved I am that finally some are starting to see what I have been seeing and experiencing.

When Frito started writing about methylation, I sat up and took notice. The KREBS cycle was something that was not known when I was at college, and biochem was a struggle for me. But my Lyme doc in Manchester had said something in 2009 that stuck: there are toxicity issues, he said, with calcium being trapped within the cells, and oxygen, too, the result being mitochondrial illness; we see magnesium deficiencies and other problems with the cell working properly.

Absolutely, and this is why knowing about Lyme and its treatment issues are so very important. As this can be extrapolated into our own condition. The methylation cycle can also be overlayed right on top of Lyme, and Morgellons as well. One can even overlay methylation onto Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker's biotoxin pathway to mold toxicity. His biotoxin pathway reaction can be directly correlated to any biotoxin reaction of the body and they directly support each other. Then of course, the connection ot CFS/ME/FM/MCS are already apparent.

So a further path to follow is what process of events will actually displace calcium out of the cell and into the cytoplasm. In doing so, then you will want to find what is actually capable of interacting with the cytoplasmic concentration of calcium to from the precipitate of calcium oxalate in the skin. I found some answers in looking at the formation of calcium oxalate into the kidneys, and theorizing about the formation in the skin. It is here I come up with the metabolic acidemias, and there are differing classes within each one. These again, also correlate directly with methylation.

There had been a lot of threads about using various food-based liquid solutions to rid the skin of this frass. Some of them were acidic, like GSE. But if calcium was building up within my cells, I wanted something that could clean out the inside of the cells, not just remove it from my skin. I wanted to truncate the process of it having to be excreted from my skin, and flush it out of the individual cells and excrete it through kidneys and intestines.

Its not building up in our cells, its being kicked out into the cytoplasm. So the major improvement will come from putting it back in where it belongs and getting whats in the cytoplasm out. And this is where the electrolyte balance comes into place. I make and use an electrolyte drink for quite sometime. Those lines in everyones skin we used to talk about? They dissappeared when I began this type of supportive treatment.

I also wanted to say one other thing.
Megan recently posted that her endoscopy results revealed dark speckles in the digestive tract.
I had noticed during my two years with Morgellons symptoms, black specks in my stools. I was uncertain if these were some sort of parasites or eggs. I had also contemplated that they might actually be blood, although that did not make sense, because blood in the stools will render the stools to have a tar-like consistency. It never occurred to me that this might be blood from my stomach --which when it occurs, gives the appearance of coffee-grounds in the stools. And yet, this is what I have been seeing for two years. That too, is now resolving after almost 2 weeks of Vit C; I still see an occasional fleck, but nothing like the great amount I observed when I was at my most ill.

This is also the same conclusion I came up with long ago. Just because you can't see whats on the inside, doesn't mean nothing is going on and why just treating the skin is so very lacking. I also believe those black specks in the stools are from enogenous blood, petachaie. Micro-hemorrages throughout the gut system, and I also believe it to also surround abnormal proteins of which then leads us right back to what controls abnormal proteins, and that is the methylation cycle and the contributory pathways of the Krebbs cycle as these contribute directly to the formation and control of proteins including DNA and rNA.

I have taken boatloads of Vitamin C, and I also did the salt and c protocol for about a year. These were not solutions but have been helpful in my case but stay tuned, as in some later comments I will expand on why.

This is not without some other layer of this illness surfacing.
I think that my immune system has begun to awaken. I have had a slight fever and sensation of a brewing infection for two days. My kidneys are slightly painful (hmm); my thyroid was very painful for a few hours today but settled after I ate some seaweed (for the iodine). I continue to have some joint pain, but it comes and goes. I do have the "de-tox' headache. If I do develop an infection, I will have to tackle it on my own; I have no doctor anymore. I have given them up like a bad addiction.

It is here I would like to contribute some experiences and cautions. One concerning the "layers" and the second concerning "detox".

I have many other comments too, but sorry, I have to go to work.

Frito

[Janice]

You are one smart person!

[skylark99]

Thank you Katinka, Janice and Frito for your replies and comments to this thread.

I will look to find this protocol that you speak of, Katinka, over on the LB forum; thank you for that reference. I am hopeful that some sort of blueprint for sorting this metabolic fault out can be found. No doubt your instinct to supplement the 'Ausburg protocol' has contributed to their understanding of what is happening, and I am sure it validated their thinking as well.

I hope that time and energy allows you to return and finish your comments, Frito. And yes, I also have seen quite a lot of this for a while but since no one else has been talking about it, it's been a sort of solo thought process. I have been concerned with the possibility of the calcium oxilate building up in the kidneys and forming 'stones'; not sure how to resolve this, but I am thinking electrolyte drinks -oceans of them. Past animal work has also lead me to this train of thought (calcium precipitation through the skin), as well as my Lyme docs comment that supplementation with calcium, magnesium and glut was necessary (in one portion) of correcting this metabolic problem.

And yes, Janice, me and that real estate agent out on the east coast, well.... we think she is just wonderful! I am grateful for your comments about your past experience with this --replication of results is what is needed, so navigation of this metabolic maze will be clearer. Your results add weight to the process that need to be undertaken to sort this issue, so thank you so much for adding your experience about this part of the process.

[MeaganM]

Skylark, I was just wondering what you mean by white frass? Are you talking about the fibers or the glitter or something else?

Meagan