Vitamins & herbs how they can help

[Doc Holliday]

on this issue I am not very good, all are welcome to put in one post all that is helpful Vitamins & herbs. thank you

[jeanlong]

hi D H

Been taking extra vitamin c every day since this began. Recently I also added zinc, b6 and lysine. After doing that I saw an ad for a solaray product,

Solaray Free-Form L-Lysine, 1000 mg, 90 Tablets | Super Supplements

so I'll run out of what I'm using and try it to see how I like this product. I do not take a multi vitamin or multimineral because we have a lot of nutrients from food and we eat lots of fresh food. but if you aren't eating well consider a multi supplement. So. . . this all depends on your diet. first highly nutritional diet is important - - Make sure your food is free of allergens, junk food, toxic stuff and non-nutrients. Also include healthy sources of protein, complex carbs and organic cold pressed oil (healthy fat). avoid ALL transfats (so this means do not eat cooked fats as they are immediately treated as a waste product by the system, as opposed to healthy fats which the body uses as nutrients). PersonalIy I eat cold-pressed organic oil (sesame, pumpkin, walnut, flax, hemp) and have been recommending this for anyone with any kind of skin problem for about 20+ years. It is really important! If you don't like to add these oils to your food (salad dressing etc) then take a supplement to ensure you have nutritional fats. But it tastes good and we eat it as a food. We also heavily spice our food and have done so for a very long time. This routinely includes garlic, cayenne, clove, tumeric, cinnamon, ginger, cilantro, oregano, garlic-chive, rosemary, thyme, perilla, basil, lime juice, lemon rind and juice, parsley and scallion (green and bulb parts). I personally take TCM herbal mixture, broth or concentrates, but the average person would have to find an OMD or similar TCM expert clinician to have an individualized mixture for best results.

If you eat grains or food from grain I recommend organic because conventional grain is often contaminated with lindane or other pesticides that worsen M symptoms. Ditto for potato. This illness has many symptoms of toxicity which are probably from both xenobiotics and exotoxins, so avoiding the the most toxic pesticides in foods are going to be helpful along with avoiding foods that have non-nutrients (artificial sweeteners, fried food, sodapop, etc).

I drink green tea too, which some consider an herbal supplement. we think of it as a favorite beverage.

best regards
Jean

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

on this issue I am not very good, all are welcome to put in one post all that is helpful Vitamins & herbs. thank you

[jonsi]

jeanlong, thank you for posting what works for you. I especially like the foods you eat: This routinely includes garlic, cayenne, clove, tumeric, cinnamon, ginger, cilantro, oregano, garlic-chive, rosemary, thyme, perilla, basil, lime juice, lemon rind and juice, parsley and scallion (green and bulb parts). etc...

I got into serious trouble when I started taking supplements in pill form that my body didn't need. For me it was selenium. It gave me horrible back aches. I think it is much better to include real spices to our diet instead of taking supplements.

The "M" will find the toxins in our body...

Good to see you again

Itwl,
~jonsi

[jeanlong]

spices are often from my yard. a fyi pumpkin seed, tumeric, clove, garlic and scallion entrenched in Asian culture as anti-parasite foods. I don't know if they are in any books as TCM-medicinal-antiparasite-herbs but we eat these all the time with organic brown rice. If I did not eat this way I would consider taking supplements with clove, garlic and tumeric.

the good thing is that when we add spices, our natural instinct guides us a to amount to take. sometime I love lots of garlic, but not always. also we use local honey especially to mix into sauce or dressing with the citrus, a nice sweet+sour blend.

Vitamin C - I take 1500mg/day. The other thing is new - the zinc+lysine+b6 supplement is an experiment just yesterday started after feeling stable on the TCM herbal formula I take. dont know if the zinc it will really help or not. I recommend AGAINST routinely taking most mineral or fat soluble vitamin as a supplement because the body cannot easily jettison an overload. fr example someone can hurt themselves by taking too much iron or fatsoluble vitamin A.

Originally Posted by jonsi

jeanlong, thank you for posting what works for you.
...

I got into serious trouble when I started taking supplements in pill form that my body didn't need. For me it was selenium. It gave me horrible back aches. I think it is much better to include real spices to our diet instead of taking supplements.

The "M" will find the toxins in our body...

Good to see you again

Itwl,
~jonsi

[jeanlong]

maybe insects are carriers, but I have not read one article based on sound research (scientific paradigm view) that proves or disproves this theory. I personally think I was infected by a bug bite but no one is REALLY sure of the etiology of this illness.

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

Another way is to be bitten by a carrier agent, such as a mite (demodex mites and scabies are two kinds of mites known to bite and burrow in humans, drinking their blood), that carries the pathogens and toxins that lead to causing Morgellons symptoms, the syndrome, and later, the disease.

[tcmgpt13]

Parasites themselves have proven to be carriers of other diseases. More on that later. So it may not be the vector itself which does this but it could be the parasite.

[tcmgpt13]

There is no science to prove that GSE works at all with out the unnatural additives which are used as preservatives. Although marketed as a natural product it is anything but natural.

Originally Posted by tcmgpt13

Something to keep in mind is the fact that probably any antimicrobial effects which are found in commercial products sold as GSE are the result of the preservatives found in these products, the most likely one being benzethonium chloride although there are others too. Some of these products may contain little to no grapefruit seed extract itself. If the preservatives were not present in some of the commercial products then a naturally made graperfruit seed extract was tested and found to have no efficacy in itself at all.

Triclosan is also found in some of these preparations which is for internal use.

Benzethonium chloride is an antimicrobial in its own right, but it is not suggested for internal usage.

A quote:
"Benzethonium chloride and triclosan are listed by government agencies as a “suspected endocrine toxicant” and “pesticide”, respectively."

Grapefruit Seed Extract Preservative — Safe for Homemade and Natural Products? :: hippie dippie bébé

From wiki on GSE:

"Grapefruit seed extract (GSE), also known as citrus seed extract, is a liquid derived from the seeds, pulp, and white membranes of grapefruit.[1] Self-made natural GSE processed in the laboratory without solvents or synthetic agents is prepared by grinding the grapefruit seed and juiceless pulp, then mixing with glycerin.[1] Commercially available GSE sold to consumers are made from the seed, pulp, glycerin, and synthetic preservatives all blended together.[1] Grapefruit seed extract is sold as a food supplement and used in cosmetics because it is a claimed natural antimicrobial.[2]

An early proponent was Dr. Jacob Harich (1919–1996).[3] A long time promoter of GSE was Aubrey Hampton, the founder of Aubrey Organics.[4] Some marketers of GSE affirm this extract to be a safe, natural, and an effective preservative.[5] This extract has been stated by some practitioners of alternative medicine to possess antibacterial, antiviral, and antifungal properties.[3] It has been recommended by some nutritionists for the treatment of candidiasis, earache, throat infections, and diarrhea.[3] GSE is promoted at health food shops and on the internet.[6][7]

There are conflicting scientific demonstrations of the efficacy of GSE.[1] Suspicions about the true nature of the active compounds in GSEs arose when synthetic additives were found in commercial products.[2] Suspected counterfeit grapefruit seed extracts were adulterated with synthetic preservatives.[8][9][10] When preservatives were not present in some of the extracts, laboratory tests found the natural extracts had no natural antimicrobial attributes of their own.[5] Some manufacturers of GSE have stated that their extract has compounds nearly identical to benzethonium chloride, but a 2001 study supervised by chemist G. Takeoka has documented that commercial GSE preparations contain the synthetic compound benzethonium chloride that could not have been made from GSE.[5]

Efficacy

Anecdotal claims for an antimicrobial effect are based on a few abstract scientific experiments which show some antimicrobial activity for commercial grapefruit seed extracts and an ethanol grapefruit seed extract but not a natural GSE.[17][18][19] The preliminary studies for the antimicrobial effect state that the Citricidal commercial brand of GSE was used for testing.[17][18] There is considerable scientific evidence that the anti-microbial activity associated with grapefruit seed extract is attributable to the contamination or adulteration of commercial GSE preparations with synthetic antimicrobials or preservatives.[2] According to the 2001 GSE study, branded commercial GSE preparations were contaminated with synthetic benzethonium chloride that was implausible to be made from grapefruit seeds.[5] Some of the marketers claimed that their product does not contain benzethonium chloride and the error was due to the similarity in molecular weight of the quaternary ammonium compound which was formed through a proprietary manufacturing process.[5] It is inconceivable that the preservative benzethonium chloride is formed during any extraction and/or processing of grapefruit seeds and pulp.[5] Researchers conclusively demonstrated the presence of benzethonium chloride in commercial GSE using various analytical methods including HPLC, one- and two-dimensional NMR, PIXE analysis, and electrospray ionization MS.[5] Another in vitro study claimed GSE had antibacterial properties.[19] As with the branded in vitro test[17][18] this extract was contaminated.[5] The ethanolic grapefruit seed and pulp extract tested was prepared or contaminated with ethanol, a chemical solvent used in the extraction process.[19] Ethanol, also known as ethyl alcohol, is effective in inhibiting bacteria.[20] Nevertheless, as a result of marketing by manufacturers in the health food arena and a few misinterpreted studies conducted in vitro that tested contaminated extracts which were not pure GSE processed without solvents or brands which are known to contain preservatives, the controversy over the effectiveness of GSE continues even when studies concluded self-made pure GSE has no natural antimicrobial properties and commercial GSE has been identified with contamination from synthetic preservatives.[1][2][5][6][21]

Independent studies have shown that commercial preparations contain the compound benzalkonium chloride, which is a synthetic antimicrobial commonly used in disinfectants and cleaning products, the related compound benzethonium chloride, the antibiotic triclosan, or the preservative methylparaben.[1][6][21] Some samples were shown to contain up to 22% benzalkonium chloride by weight, despite the known allergenicity[22] and toxicity[23] of the compound at higher doses.[6] These chemicals were not present in grapefruit seed extracts prepared in the laboratory, and GSE preparations without the contaminants were found to possess no detectable antimicrobial effect.[1] Although citrus seed extract is sold in health food markets,[6] there is no good evidence for any natural antimicrobial activity.[1][7]

A study that examined the antiviral properties of GSE found that GSE had no efficacy as a disinfectant for feline calicivirus and feline parvovirus.[24] Grapefruit seed extract has been advocated to be a powerful antimicrobial with proven activity against bacteria and fungi. However, independent studies have shown the efficacy of grapefruit seed extract as an antimicrobial is not demonstrated. Although citrus seed extract is claimed to be a highly effective plant-based preservative by some natural personal care manufacturers, studies asserted that the universal antimicrobial benefits associated with GSE are merely from the presence of synthetic preservatives. Natural GSE has no antimicrobial properties.[1][2] Newer studies found many commercial grapefruit seed extracts contaminated with synthetic preservatives.[8][9][10] In a 2007 study the main synthetic antimicrobial agent identified in commercial GSE samples was benzethonium chloride.[8] In a 2008 study synthetic disinfectants such as benzethonium or benzalkonium chloride were identified in most of the commercial GSE products.[9] In a 2008 study suspected counterfeit products were determined to contain benzethonium chloride in grapefruit seed extract samples.[10]

Controversy

GSE usage has been popularized by many companies within the scope of the health food industry.[5] There are books exclusively dedicated to GSE.[3][41][42] This extract is promoted by marketers on the internet and some health food stores recommend its use.[5][7] Some consumers believe this extract is an effective natural preservative even though multiple scientific studies have concluded that the universal antimicrobial activity is merely from contamination with synthetic antimicrobials.[1][2][5][6][21][39]

“ GSE is marketed as an all-natural and perfectly safe health food product, when it is neither. Various Citrus species have been used as a food and medicine in Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine for thousands of years. While they have many many benefits, neither Chinese nor Ayurvedic medicine has ever advocated the use of Grapefruit seed or any other Citrus seed in acute infectious disease: this alone should provide some clue as to its effects or lack thereof. "

Grapefruit seed extract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

—Todd Caldecott, [7]

An additional article about GSE by Todd Caldecott:

Grapefruit seed extract antibiotic activity is due to preservative compounds | Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients | Find Articles at BNET

[tcmgpt13]

Robin was asking about using GSE on the quoted thread. As quoted GSE is not an all natural product:

Originally Posted by tcmgpt13

If I were Robin I would surely think hard and long about ever giving a child, no matter what the internal dose, some benzethonium chloride, tricolsan or any of the other never meant to be ingested products contained in GSE. As highlighted in one quote from my prior post here preservatives found in GSE products are potential endocrine toxins and pesticides. Do any of us truly want to see a younger child who is still developing exposed to yet more unsafe products, especially ones which harm the endocrine system of the body? Maybe some do not care, but I for one do care. This product is not even close to being a natural product.

"Chemical manufacturers take the leftover grapefruit pulp, a waste by-product from grapefruit juice production, and in an intensive, multi-step industrial chemical process, change the natural phenolic compounds into synthetic quaternary ammonium compounds. Typically, in chemical synthesis of this type, chemical reagents and catalysts are used under extreme high heat and pressure or vacuum. Synthetic ammonium chloride is one of the chemical catalysts used in this process.
The US Department of Agriculture´s (USDA) National Organic Program defines synthetic as “A substance that is formulated or manufactured by a chemical process or by a process that chemically changes a substance extracted from naturally occurring plant, animal, or mineral sources.” Grapefruit seed extract is a synthetic chemical compound, cannot be called “organic,” and is not permitted in organic food proucts. Unfortunately, because there is no legal definition of the word “natural,” any company can put chemicals in body care products and tell you that they´re “natural.”


Grapefruit Seed Extract Preservative — Safe for Homemade and Natural Products? :: hippie dippie bébé

Quoted in my prior post but rehighlighted here:

"Some consumers believe this extract is an effective natural preservative even though multiple scientific studies have concluded that the universal antimicrobial activity is merely from contamination with synthetic antimicrobials.

"GSE is marketed as an all-natural and perfectly safe health food product, when it is neither. Various Citrus species have been used as a food and medicine in Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine for thousands of years. While they have many many benefits, neither Chinese nor Ayurvedic medicine has ever advocated the use of Grapefruit seed or any other Citrus seed in acute infectious disease: this alone should provide some clue as to its effects or lack thereof. "

[MeaganM]

Wow, this is some great info. Thanks Doc for starting the post.

The doctor that told me I had a blood parasite from an insect bite said to avoid Magnesium, B Complex, Folic Acid and fats. He suggested lots of Vit B12, Vit. D, Vit. C, and iodine as well as organic fruits and veggies. I was taking a mega vitamin drink and stopped after he told me this because it was loaded with stuff he said to avoid. Since then, my sinuses and throat are starting to clear up.

Anyone know why he suggested iodine? What does it do? It's hard to find right now because people went out and bought it after the Japan nuclear event.

He also said to stay away from nightshades.

[tcmgpt13]

Hmm, not one smidgen of discussion about this supplement (l-lysine) and why you plan to use it? Just a link?

This is such an interesting thread. Very interesting.

No mention is made that this product could be purchased on the internet anywhere else either, also at good discounts. Many sites carry it at good discounts. BTW we do have some discussion about l-lysine and why it could be helpful to those with herpes viral infections.

Here's one post which even has a scientific reference.

Originally Posted by tcmgpt13

If a person has a viral infection arginine may quite possibly worsen symptoms of the infection.

Here are some short articles which discusses the importance of a good arginine/lysine ratio if one has any viral infection or reactivated viral infection. In the interest of brevity on this thread I copied short statements here:

Issue 10. Lysine, Arginine and Viral Infections (2007) CISRA’s Synergy Health Newsletter
by J. C. Waterhouse, Ph.D. There is evidence that the ratio of the amino acid arginine to lysine in the diet affects the replication of Herpes simplex virus. One may find it helpful to minimize arginine-containing foods (nuts are particularly high in arginine) and/or balance out the arginine with lysine, particularly when under stress.

Some people have also found that being mindful of their lysine and arginine consumption is helpful in prevention and treatment of Shingles (also in the Herpes family). An article in the Saturday Evening Post has described potential benefits in chronic fatigue sydrome in cases where viruses in the Herpes family are involved (these include Epstein-Barr virus and Cytomegalovirus) based on the work of the late Dr. Richard Griffith of Indiana University. The main thing to remember is that nuts and plant based proteins (like rice protein powder) have the most arginine relative to lysine and dairy products have the lowest. Meats are in between and the higher protein foods will be the ones to pay the most attention to since they have the highest concentrations arginine and lysine. This article includes a list of arginine and lysine content of foods: Herpes - Nutrition. If one prefers, the lysine can be taken in supplemental form. For cold sores, Dr. Griffith recommended 500 mg of lysine per 22 pounds of body weight daily.

Studies: Relation of arginine-lysine antagonism to Herpes simplex growth in tissue culture. Griffith RS , DeLong DC , Nelson JD. Chemotherapy, 27(3): 209-13 1981 Abstract excerpt: “In the studies conducted, arginine deficiency suppressed Herpes simplex virus replication in tissue culture. Lysine, an analog of arginine, as an antimetabolite, antagonized the viral growth-promoting action of arginine….”

A multicentered study of lysine therapy in Herpes simplex infection. Griffith RS, Norins AL, Kagan C. Dermatologica, 156(5): 257-67 1978 Abstract excerpt: “Lysine appears to suppress the clinical manifestations of Herpes virus infection. 45 patients with frequently recurring Herpes infection were given 312-1,200 mg of lysine daily in single or multiple doses. The clinical results demonstrated a beneficial effect from supplementary lysine in accelerating recovery from Herpes simplex infection and suppressing recurrence…..”

Relation of arginine-lysine antagonism to herpes s...[Chemotherapy. 1981] - PubMed Result

"In the studies conducted, arginine deficiency suppressed herpes simplex virus replication in tissue culture. Lysine, an analog of arginine, as an antimetabolite, antagonized the viral growth-promoting action of arginine. The in vitro data may be the basis for the observation that patients prone to herpetic lesions and other related viral infections, particularly during periods of stress, should abstain from arginine excess and may also require supplemental lysine in their diet."

Sample of a low arginine diet menu is found on this site:

Low Arginine Diet

It seems to me that if a viral infection is behind some morgellons lesions then eating foods high in arginine could worsen viral symptoms, including the formation of additional lesions if a viral infection is present.

Originally Posted by jeanlong

hi D H

Been taking extra vitamin c every day since this began. Recently I also added zinc, b6 and lysine. After doing that I saw an ad for a solaray product,

Solaray Free-Form L-Lysine, 1000 mg, 90 Tablets | Super Supplements

so I'll run out of what I'm using and try it to see how I like this product. I do not take a multi vitamin or multimineral because we have a lot of nutrients from food and we eat lots of fresh food. but if you aren't eating well consider a multi supplement. So. . . this all depends on your diet. first highly nutritional diet is important - - Make sure your food is free of allergens, junk food, toxic stuff and non-nutrients. Also include healthy sources of protein, complex carbs and organic cold pressed oil (healthy fat). avoid ALL transfats (so this means do not eat cooked fats as they are immediately treated as a waste product by the system, as opposed to healthy fats which the body uses as nutrients). PersonalIy I eat cold-pressed organic oil (sesame, pumpkin, walnut, flax, hemp) and have been recommending this for anyone with any kind of skin problem for about 20+ years. It is really important! If you don't like to add these oils to your food (salad dressing etc) then take a supplement to ensure you have nutritional fats. But it tastes good and we eat it as a food. We also heavily spice our food and have done so for a very long time. This routinely includes garlic, cayenne, clove, tumeric, cinnamon, ginger, cilantro, oregano, garlic-chive, rosemary, thyme, perilla, basil, lime juice, lemon rind and juice, parsley and scallion (green and bulb parts). I personally take TCM herbal mixture, broth or concentrates, but the average person would have to find an OMD or similar TCM expert clinician to have an individualized mixture for best results.

If you eat grains or food from grain I recommend organic because conventional grain is often contaminated with lindane or other pesticides that worsen M symptoms. Ditto for potato. This illness has many symptoms of toxicity which are probably from both xenobiotics and exotoxins, so avoiding the the most toxic pesticides in foods are going to be helpful along with avoiding foods that have non-nutrients (artificial sweeteners, fried food, sodapop, etc).

I drink green tea too, which some consider an herbal supplement. we think of it as a favorite beverage.

best regards
Jean