Zeolite - Does it help with Morgellons?

[2manyfibers]

Hey gator and anyone else that might be considering trying the liquid zeolite (Natural Cellular Defense) that was mentioned in plaquenil thread - I saw the post mentioning this stuff and did a bit of googling. From what I’ve found, I think this stuff is probably just some extremely expensive snake oil that has some pretty dubious marketing and credentials including those of the "inventor" of the product and CEO of the company (my opinion only but you can read the information and decide for yourself). You can find dozens of links for this Multi-Level-Marketing product that rave about how wonderful it is (most written by the company itself or people that have apparently trusted the inventor at his word). But you can also find quite a lot of information about the far greater likelihood that this is simply another scam created by greedy people preying on the sick to make money (although many people selling it may sincerely believe that they are helping people).

From what I can tell it’s a lot more about slick and likely deceptive marketing than actual substance of any kind. There doesn’t appear to be any actual evidence that it can cure much of anything and there are anecdotal stories indicating that the product may cause far more harm than good. Actually, there are also only anecdotal stories that zeolite works to help with any condition – apparently there is no actual evidence from studies in humans despite the marketing information that appears to claim otherwise. And frankly, the “science” of how it supposedly works is suspect at best. Supposedly it works by “trapping” harmful substances (like heavy metals and other toxins) because of an electrical charge relationship (and a molecular structure like a “cage” that supposedly traps the heavy metals and toxins). Electrical charge is the basic premise of the initial stages of water treatment (generally the solids are attracted to each other by adding a chemical with a positively electric charge that makes the negatively charged solid particles “stick” to each other and become heavy enough to settle out of the solution, leaving “clean” water behind). The same basic principle can probably be achieved by drinking distilled water which naturally has an electrical charge (and it don’t cost $179 for a couple of ounces).

According to one article, you can purchase a metric ton of powdered zeolite for about $300 (the same stuff that is used in some water filters, aquarium products, industrial “fillers” and the like) so $179 for a couple of ounces of very dilute zeolite suspension seems incredibly expensive to me. When you really think about it, exactly how would the body absorb volcanic ash (an inorganic rock) at a molecular level into individual cells in the body and actually use it in any cellular functions? After all, zeolite it is basically inorganic rock that most of the information I’ve read says isn’t actually soluble in the digestive tract (and even the marketing information notes that it isn’t soluble in the normal ph ranges of the human body). For substances to be used by the DNA of the body in individual cells, they have to be “soluble” such that they can get past the cell membranes and chemical reactions in the individual cells can occur. Thus, it seems that contrary to the claims made by the manufacturers of zeolite products, the zeolite couldn’t possibly reach the individual cells in the body where cancers, and other maladies actually occur (including whatever causes morgellons whether it’s parasites, fungi, bacteria or something else if it is truly systemic as seems to be the case – zeolite would just flush straight through the digestive tract theoretically).

This first link below is to an article by a homeopathic practitioner (I think) that questions the validity of the claims made by Waiora which is the manufacturer and marketer of this zeolite product.

http://www.cqs.com/zeolite.htm

The next couple of links are to a 2 part evaluation of the marketers/manufacturers and although it has a bit of "colorful" language here and there, it provides a pretty good analysis of what you need to know about zeolite (the active ingredient) and the marketers of this product. This article has several links contained in it that effectively disprove the so-called "scientific research" on the product and notes how strongly it is marketed on emotions rather than any evidence (the sales pitch is not far removed from "PLEEASSE give your poor wonderful mother the chance to save herself from cancer by buying our product....you would if you loved her!"). The owner of the company was also interviewed by the writer of these articles and the writer wasn’t impressed that the company was anything more than a marketing scam (and that the owner would make an excellent used car salesman – no offense to used car salesmen). These articles really don't have much of anything good to say about the whole thing and they seem to take a much “straighter shot” at it than the marketing garbage from the manufacturer.

Part 1:

http://www.litmusmag.net/feature/side_4.23.07.html

Part 2:

http://www.litmusmag.net/feature/6.04.07.html

The next link was referenced in the article above (part 1) and is written by a pathologist that has a site on which he provides his opinions on various alternative medical treatments:

http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#zeolite

[megluth72]

Thanks for the heads up 2many fibers! Great detective work!

[redibooks]

I've used NCD since I first started having morgellons symptoms, (almost 2 years now). It was recommended to me by a natural, intuitive MD that I see occaisionally. I used NCD as directed for a few months but am not great at drinking water so I didn't keep it up that long. What I did do though, is put drops of NCD in my ears when I felt crawling and it is the only thing that stopped the crawling in my ears. I also put a drop on my finger and rubbed it in my nostrils and it took care of all the crawling in my nostrils. Eventually, I got up the nerve to try a drop in my eye when I felt crawling in my eyes and tender at the base of my eyelashes. I've been using it in my eyes ever since and never like to be without it.

At one point I sent a bottle to someone here on the board because she was having so much trouble with her eyes but it didn't work for her like it does for me. For some people, its DSP they can't be without, for others, its eco vie; for me, NCD is the product I never like to run out of because I can't stand it when I feel like there's stuff crawling in my eyes.

I bought NCD from someone locally for a while for about $50 a bottle, then I signed up to be a distributor so that I could buy it at a more reasonable cost. It costs me about $37 a bottle with tax and shipping and lasts me for some months because of the way I use it. Has it cured me.................... no, obviously not cause I'm still here. Do I think its a valuable piece of armor, h$LL yes! I did take another zeolite mineral product for a while which was also a good product, but its granular and very much like drinking sand and the results were not as obvious to me.

That's my 2 cents on NCD.

karen

[Jason]

Thanks Karen - i agree with you what helps one may not help others.

[niecy]

Ditto
Niecy

Originally Posted by Jason

Thanks Karen - i agree with you what helps one may not help others.

[firecracker]

Dear All,

Read all the articles above and can see where some might question a few things but isn't
that true with every product whether prescription or non-prescription? Some of the comments seem a little biased and have been told that one of the people quoted has no degrees at all and is being sued himself. I myself have been on two RX meds that have been recalled...thankfully I was not on either for a long period of time.

I can only say that Natural Cellular Defense has done some wonderful local things for people
I know. If it doesn't work, then I don't know why these are happening. It does not work
on everyone because it depends on the body to do any healing...and like it or not...we are
all going to die sometime. We are just trying to mostly do preventive health care and if
already in a situation in which chelation might help...NCD seems to be the answer for some.

I have personal knowledge (I know these people and this is their story...not just someone on the phone) and will list just a few things that have happened.

A two year old boy was born to a mother who took drugs during her pregnancy. The grandmother was given custody of the child and he was almost uncontrollable ever since birth. After one week on NCD, he had four bowel movements (usually only one a week) and
he was a totally different little boy. He has continued on the NCD and the grandmother and
the day care workers are ecstatic.

My daughter's mother-in-law has had psoriasis on arms, hands, legs etc for over 40 years. She has been to many doctors and some dermatologists with a little relief but not much.
After one week on NCD, the plauques began thinning and within three weeks they had cleared completely. She has now been on NCD for 4-5 months and remains clear.

A teenage girl with psoriasis in our local high school also cleared completely but we had two
other patients who tried it and saw no results within one bottle so they quit. Why some so fast and others not...can only think it depends on the person's particular make-up.

An older lady had folds in her mouth from previous surgeries that the plastic surgeons said could not be helped. It bothered her when speaking and chewing. She took NCD for general purposes and the folds disappeared. Her "fat" legs also went away and became normal sized.

My son-in-law had a lump on his leg (it was there for several months...egg shaped and stuck out...couldn't wear socks over it or it hurt) and had been to two doctors and they didn't know what it was even after x-rays but never biopsied it. He started NCD just for preventative health and his lump went away...a side benefit he didn't expect.

My 48 year old son has been allergic to the whole gourd family, corn, tomatoes and all the grass, mold, etc that most are allergic to. He started on NCD and actually felt sluggish for the first two months...then he called one night all excited. "Mom, I mowed the lawn tonight and for the first time in my whole life I only sneezed once." He said usually he has to stop and blow a bunch of "gunk" out of his nose four or five times per mowing and most of the time he could not talk for about two hours after mowing. He said he actually felt as good right then as he ever had on a good day.

I have more examples of personal knowledge so I know something is happening to help some of the people...not everyone...some have had disease lurking in their bodies waiting to pounce for a long time. Chelation may be the answer for some but not for others.

I know my allergies are better (on NCD for 6 months as of now) because I am off all my allergy meds (four months) and have not been stuffed up or drippy at all. Also am not violently reacting to perfume on others although it is still unpleasant as I have so many memories of reactions to it.

I do not know if NCD would help any of you but I have heard from others that some parasites
were expelled after using it. I know no one personally but know the person was sincere who told me about it.

Please e-mail me at (buckwheatgirl2000@yahoo.com) if you have any questions. Put something in the subject line that tells me you have read this letter (a quote not just general) or I won't open it. Am already getting some bad e-mails from not so nice girls
who somehow got that address.

S. Young, RN

[2manyfibers]

Uhhhhhh…………firecracker………..you just proved one of the main points that was discussed in the articles I listed above. There is no documented factual evidence or studies that show that NCD actually does what the marketers of it claim it can do; only anecdotal stories like the ones you posted that anyone can fabricate (which I’m not saying that you did but how would anyone know whether you did or not?) Another problem with anecdotal stories like the ones you mentioned (even if they are true) is that there is not any way to determine if NCD had anything to do with the reported results - were the people taking other additional things at the time, did they stop taking other things that might have been causing the problems to begin with, etc? Maybe taking fiber and drinking distilled water or anything else to "cleanse" the colon and urinary tract would work just as well. Truthfully, there is no way for you or anyone else to know what the true reasons for the purported recoveries were and whether the NCD actually did anything physically to help or not. That was one of the major problems the people that wrote those articles had with the product. The corporate marketing people make a lot of apparently false (or at least completely unproven) claims that “scientific” studies have shown all these miracle possibilities when they can’t produce the studies (because they were never actually performed). Here is a PARTIAL list of what the marketers claim zeolite can “help” with:

ADD/Hyperactivity, Addiction, Agent Orange Exposure, Arthritis, Autism, Cysts and Tumors, Depression, DES Exposure, Diabetes, Fibromyalgia, Flu, Colds, and Respiratory Problems, Gastro-Intestinal Problems, Heavy Metal Poisoning, Hepatitis C, High Blood Pressure, Kidney Stones, Lack of Mental Clarity, Pain, PMS/Menstrual Pain, Silicone Breast Implant Toxicity, Skin Conditions, Toothache/Gum Disease, Varicose and Spider Veins, Viral and Other Infections, Yeast Infections … In addition, zeolite may well be one of the most potent natural preventatives and treatments for cancer ever discovered.

Pardon me for being a bit suspicious, but if NCD could “help” with all this I think sickness could be potentially eliminated from human existence almost immediately. Obviously, I think these claims are incredibly exaggerated and have absolutely no real basis in fact. I posted the information above so that people wouldn’t be too easily misled by all the marketing hype on the internet concerning this product. The marketing websites are much more prevalent from using google searches than sites discussing whether there are any benefits to be gained from using zeolite. At $179 a pop for a tiny amount of this product, I think people should have the information they need about this product so they can make a truly informed decision

I’m sure it is possible that NCD might help some things although the reasons aren't necessarily clear. Karen noted in her post above that it helped her with her eyes and ears and I’m glad that it does. I won’t argue with her success using it for that purpose. However, that is NOT the intended purpose of zeolite according to the marketers. Motor oil can be used as a hand lotion even though it is intended to lubricate mechanical parts and internal combustion engines, however that is not what it is intended for. Thus, I am not denying that NCD might have some benefits for some people for some things. However, I am stating very emphatically that the marketing tactics used by the corporate leaders of NCD are highly suspect at best and that NCD couldn’t possibly accomplish all that the marketing hype claims that it does.

You stated in the first paragraph of your post that the articles seemed to be a little "biased". There is nothing wrong with a little "bias" if it is based on the results of a solid investigation of marketing claims - that is the intent of investigative journalism if it is properly done - the results will be "biased" toward the truth. Wouldn't you agree that the miraculous claims promoted on many sites selling NCD are a little "biased"? At least the bias in the articles is based on a somewhat independent evaluation of a specific product rather than the bias that is evident in favor of the product shown by people SELLING the product.

You also noted that one of the authors of the articles supposedly didn’t have a degree and was being sued himself as if that has some relevance to anything. A degree is not required to spot bogus marketing techniques and anyone can be sued for practically anything. According to some of the information referenced in the article, the CEO of Waiora, the company that manufactures NCD, was the controller of Pharmor when hundreds of millions of dollars were embezzled and he was subsequently sued by investors for his role in it. Additionally, the “chief scientific advisor” that appears to be the main “front man” for the company appears to have “embellished” his resume and associated accomplishments that he claims. This information can be found here:

http://www.litmusmag.net/feature/side_6.04.07.html

This “chief scientific officer” also supposedly has made a rebuttal to the information from the links contained in my first post but mysteriously if doesn’t seem to be available on line. Check this link to an NCD marketing website for the rebuttal – the rebuttal is nowhere to be found…… you get a server error 404 saying the article can’t be found (as one of the guys in the articles noted discussing how the websites always use some “schmuck in a lab coat” as an attempt to add legitimacy and credibility to the product):

http://www.drzeolitedetox.com/response.html

In fact, zeolite really appears to have no real theoretical capability to accomplish the cures it claims possible because even the sites selling it say it absolutely, completely flushes from the system in 5 to 7 hours. This means that it has to go straight through the digestive tract which means that the only potential toxins it could remove would be contained in the digestive tract. Thus, zeolite couldn’t possibly get into the cellular structure of the body where many pathogens like cancers (and morgellons, and the heavy metals NCD claims to remove) become a problem. Not only does this impossibility make common sense but there are many articles you can read from actual medical scientists and researchers espousing the same conclusion (including Croatian scientists that aren’t tied to zeolite manufacturers – the whole zeolite marketing and supposed research for “medical” purposes started in Croatia a few years ago).

Another thing to note is that I am quite certain that Franky (the owner of this forum) did not intend for people to use the forum as their own little direct marketing vehicle to reach a captive audience of people that are sick with morgellons. There are plenty of places on the web for people to search out any medical or holisitic treatment they desire, both valid sites and sites that make incredible claims about various products. I personally don’t think this is needed here. If your only intent for being on this forum is to market your products, I would suggest you spend your own money for advertising or setting up a website rather than trying to take unfair advantage of this forum.

[Jo]

Hi Firecracker, 2many,

Why is it that there are lots of companies online with products like zeolite that dont invest to undertake clinical trials? Its expensive right... I dont know how much $$$$...Firecracker???

Maybe non-competing companies should work together to undertake trials to lower the costs....

Is it the system that needs to change to allow valid testing happen?? or the will of companies, to look at the longer term financial gains in 'putting their money where their mouth is'??

I'm not being funny, I'm just interested to know what the stumbling blocks are.

I just wish that more trials were undertaken, so that products that had undeniable health benefits could be given the limelight they deserve. AND then they could target the sufferers, that clinically, they know they can help.

As someone with morgellon symptoms, I'm not compelled to buy it. BUT I might consider trying it, if a free sample flew my way!

......er....sorry to 'butt in'

Jo xxx

[2manyfibers]

Jo – the articles from the links in the first post address how NCD talks a lot about how they quote other research that may or may not have anything to do with zeolites and that the company is supposedly doing research and studies on their products but never actually publishes the studies or the results. They apparently just like to use rumors of studies as marketing propaganda. Studies can be expensive I’m sure, but actual studies could help validate whether products can perform as claimed. I would think that most reputable companies would gladly invest in verifiable and well documented studies to validate their claims and gladly publish the results of those studies. Here’s an excerpt from one of the articles I linked to discussing how this company uses "studies":

There’s a story circulating on a lot of the NCD web sites about an informal trial with 65 supposed late-stage cancer patients where 78% of them supposedly went into remission. It’s a powerful story – I even hesitate to mention it here for fear of contributing to it’s longevity – but despite having developed a life of it’s own, and despite claims that it was in the process of being written up as a “best case report” (without any statistics) more than a year ago, it’s still just an anecdote.

In fact, referring to ongoing or in some cases completed trials that often seem to be just weeks or months away from being written up is another favorite Waiora strategy: on Waiora websites and in discussion groups you'll frequently see references to unpublished studies on NCD and cancer, NCD and autism, NCD and toxic coal miners. The coal miners study is one of my favorites because of this quote from the transcript of an April 11, 2006 conference call with Rik Deitsch:

“It’s going to be a tier one study, and we’re in the last two weeks of that study. In fact we’ve already written up the study except for the data, statistics, and results.”

Sounds like a tier one study to me...actually, it sounds more like my dissertation. You can find a list of “ongoing studies” on the Waiora web site. Whether or not these studies actually yield publishable results, it’s a way for the makers of the product to create an atmosphere of credibility and imply that there is research supporting their claims.

[Jo]

Thanks 2many, I think I get your point.

On tv an ad might say "in clinical trials, 8 out of 10 cats preferred it"...then you look at the small print, which is usually an admission of the studies limitations (that need to be there to keep the regulators happy).

Its a great marketing tool and I think it works on many consumers, including me sometimes, doh!

But medical treatment for human health is a totally different thing hey, not in the realms of cat food. I like to keep an open mind about natural remedies that might help us and I'm more likely to try something recommended by a friend sufferer than anyone else.

What was your dissertation on 2Many? (if I may ask)

cheers Jo xx