Garlic supplements

[Jason]

Hi Tcm,

Do you take NAC (N Acetyl Cysteine) i take 2400mg a day and it really works well. Apparently with Cpn (Chlamydia Pneumoniae) it kills EB (Elementary Body phase of the infection) like Amoxicillin. According to some doctors Cpn is what suppresses the immune system and can cause the Morg symptoms down the track. NAC is good for the liver and is a supplement so maybe it might work for you too.

Jason

[megluth72]

Jason - Actually I had never heard of it before today. Looks like it might be useful for the system. I see it detoxifies the cells too. Couldn't hurt! Maybe once I'm over the flaming of my skin ( ) and horrible rash I'll introduce it to my system. Thanks for the tip!

[megluth72]

Off subject (like it matters on this post anymore ), check it out! - I'm a Jr. Member now! Wahoo!! (I'm very excited by this! - doesn't take much from me).

[jonsi]

Megluth72 said "Off subject (like it matters on this post anymore )"

I guess I caught the tail-end of this topic. Talk about going around the world for info on garlic! I got a good laugh from it!

~jonsi

[Jason]

Hi Milly,

Maybe the fibers came back quite strongly as you had the flu and stomach bug and your immune system was concentrating on other things as well. But i do agree Plaquenil was worked well for so many Lymes/Morg candidates. Will pm you this afternoon.

p.s Have you seen norovirus (winter stomach bug) has been doing the rounds throughout Britain and doctors are urging people to stay home if sick, maybe you got a dose of it. I know i had a bad cold over the xmas break but not stomach bug.

Megluth - your welcome on the NAC advice, i hope it helps if you get to trying it.

[tcmgpt13]

Hi Jason,

I am unable to find any research supporting the claim that NAC will kill the EB phase of Cpn. I find a lot of folks (patients) discussing NAC on Cpn sites, but nothing so far on the science behind using it it to kill one phase of Cpn. Can you clarify further? In any event as I understand EB this is the acute phase of Cpn, so I do not understand how this would have an effect on a more chronic stage of Cpn. Then it would be good to have a test which shows that I even have Cpn (I do have lyme, but don't think I have ever been tested for Cpn).

Well, a bit more digging, and I have found Dr. David Wheldon, UK, and his website page with at last some references to scientific articles. It appears Dr. Wheldon is interested in infections which may cause MS. So here is his page on NAC (it would seem it is more to prevent new infections of Cpn rather than to treat chronic conditions, or that is what I read). It is also interesting that he says it may help candida infections.

http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/NAC.html

Here is a very short excerpt from this page (I find it interesting and useful to learn that NAC may help chelate heavy metals, as I have read somewhere else that heavy metals help biofilms bind together in the body--this is why I think nearly everyone with morgellons needs to pay attention to heavy metal load which is hard to avoid in the modern world, even if one does not have mercury fillings):

"NAC may prove useful for other reasons, having been credited with many beneficial effects:

replenishing glutathione, a major intracellular antioxidant; see above.

preventing further new infections with C. pneumoniae and thus averting the risk of MS relapse which this can produce.

ameliorating intracellular infections (such as influenza A) which are known to precede MS relapse;

modulating the immune response, making cells more resistant to the effects of proinflammatory cytokines such as TNF-a.

is itself a major antioxidant. It is non-toxic in standard supplemental doses.

chelates heavy metals, which are known to accentuate oxidative stress.

may moderate the effect of endotoxins, which are made by chlamydiae."

In all I found this article very informative. I think though I will also post here what I am finding out about possible side effects of NAC, especially if taken in higher doses:

http://www.thebody.com/content/art4754.html:

"Side Effects and Toxicity

NAC has been used safely at doses up to 11,000 mg a day, but side effects can occur. A few clients from the Health Group have also reported some stomach upset and diarrhea while on NAC. One patient in the NIH study had an anaphylactoid reaction (a severe bronchial spasm) in the highest IV dose group. Anemia, thrombocytopenia, nausea and weight loss were also seen in this study, but these effects were not necessarily caused by NAC.

No drug interactions were reported from the NIH study. However, the Martindale Extra Pharmacopoeia reports that some antibiotics, including amphotericin, ampicillin, erythromycin and tetracycline may be incompatible or inactivated when mixed with NAC.

PWAs with a history of ulcers should perhaps avoid NAC, since it can reduce mucous that they need to protect their stomachs.

NAC is a chelating agent, and may purge minerals from your body. Nutritionists recommend keeping track of minerals and taking some supplements if necessary."

Here is another source which discusses possible problems for some taking this supplement if they have certain food allergies or medical conditions, although it seems to be the cysteine form rather than the NAC form which is behind that (this page discusses both supplements) I wonder if NAC in higher doses might be problematic for some in these areas (since it is a modified form of cysteine) but so far have not found a specific warning with NAC:

http://www.worldhealth.net/p/aadr-cy...teine-nac.html

SIDE EFFECTS/CONTRAINDICATIONS:

People with diabetes mellitus and allergies to eggs, milk, or wheat should not take supplementary cysteine. People taking the drug may experience severe headaches when taking NAC. Cysteine supplements must be taken with vitamin C to prevent cysteine being converted to cystine, which may form kidney or bladder stones. People with kidney or liver disease should consult their doctor before taking supplementary cysteine.

Here is another article about NAC with a link to a Passwater (Ph.d Biochemist) article about NAC:

http://www.canarys-eye-view.org/supplements/nac.html

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Jason--I may give it a trial in a lower dose to see what happens (as I do stay away from gluten I would want to be cautious).

best,

tcm

[Jason]

The Cpn handbook explains how researchers at Vanderbilt discovered that NAC worked in the same way as Amoxicillin does to break through the disulphide bonds in the proteins of the coat of the EB.

Chlamydia Pneumoniae is difficult to trace via testing and i think researchers are now trying to develop more advanced and sensitive tests to enhance accuracy in testing. In a sense it is similar to Borrelosis and is very clever in hiding. I was told once that by taking NAC starting at low dose of 600-1200mg a day if i felt any herx reactions it would be highly possible that i had been infected by Cpn. There is testing available but most labs in the UK are useless, the best ones and most accurate technology is in the US.

The problem you would have is killing the RB (Reticulate Bodies) and Cryptic form. As both these phases require antibiotics. I was told that a Calcium channel blocker can work on the Cryptic phase but i have not done any investigating into this.

From a toxicity perspective you would never need to get to the levels of 11,000mg dosages so i don't think this would be a problem. It can be quite expensive which is a downside.

This is a link to the handbook which you have probably seen there is many interviews with Dr Weldon and Dr Stratton/Dr Mitchell and all the other doctors involved with Vanderbilt and elsewhere. Hope it helps.

http://www.cpnhelp.org/http%3A//www..../%3Fq%3Dsimple