THRIPS please read!

[tcmgpt13]

Somehow when commercial sites post information I always feel they are selling something to me and not really giving me scientific information. It is possible that this group of oils kills airborne or surface molds, but there is one thing I do not think it can do, kill all mold hidden behind a wall. Even if holes were drilled there would be some question that there was enough treatment done to kill everything. I think it would have to be wiped down to have any real effect and porous surfaces like wall board make this very iffy indeed even if wiped. Some areas of wall would have to be totally removed if it has been infected with mold.

Also I cannot find any abstracts on Pubmed about thieves oil when I do a search. I always have to wonder why sites which sell products are so quick to declare there is research, but give no actual references to published research. Then when I do research quite frequently there is nothing on pubmed for whatever it is a site is selling. Now individual oils may be on discussed on pubmed, but there is nothing I could find which showed research on the blended thieves oil. One cannot assume that when different oils are blended they will work as described individually. Also much testing has been in vitro which leaves many questions as well. So we are left with guessing the effect of the thieves oil combination and taking word of mouth testimonials as to the action of the blended oils as fact. I do not find word of mouth testimonials very satisfactory, especially when discussing something as toxic as mold.

Evidently some research on individual oils has been done by those with a vested interest in the outcome of their research. Sort of like what often happens with drugs and pharmaceutical companies. This is why taking new drugs when first released is such a gamble as often that is the true testing ground for their safety and effectiveness. We have all heard of some dramatic deaths resulting from new drug use on patients, but of course drug companies try to hide this from the public too. Just because something is natural does not make it safe or effective, anymore than just because drug companies released their drug for use by the public it is safe or effective either.

I know you are trying to help others, but it seems there could be some risk involved with assuming thieves oil will totally kill toxic mold in the home, especially to anyone selling these products. The liability issues boggle the mind for someone selling products with no real proof of efficacy.

Anyway, I would also like to mention to people that if they are looking into Young Living Essential Oils there are many dealers of these essential oils on the internet and as with anything, if considering purchase it would pay to look around. And Kat has given folks a much cheaper alternative of mixing up one of the blends called Thieves Oil for themselves. Shopping around for those components would save even more money.

Next a person who asks for scientific research on one site:

Theives Oil: Homemade Hand Sanitizer | Care2 Healthy & Green Living

• Les Rose says
• Oct 17, 2009 1:10 PM

" Well Road, I have tried acupuncture, several times. It didn't work. I tried chiropractic repeatedly. It didn't work. Neither did herbal medicine. Now I am not going to claim that this experience totally invalidates these treaments. Neither would you I'm sure. But do you see that personal experience is a very poor guide to what really works? This is why we have science, to minimise bias in observations. It isn't a perfect system, but it's far better than relying on personal anecdotes.

Thanks Ann for the info on anti-viral effects. Interesting, but even more so if you can give me the journal citations so that I can look up the papers. These however are all in vitro studies, not even in animal models as far as I can see. Even though lab studies are needed before we can look at effects in humans, the problem is one of dosage and exposure. How do we know that the concentrations in the lab represent those obtainable when used on sick patients? The only way to find out is to test the stuff in humans.

Another question for you. Why do you think plants would evolve hundreds of chemicals that synergise to provide beneficial effects in humans?

Yes, it's very well known that there is publication bias in the journals, but your refs don't say how the pharma companies actually suppress research on `natural' remedies.

I mentioned religion as an allegory for arguments from faith and not from evidence."

• Ann W. says
• Oct 16, 2009 10:57 AM

"Les, I forgot to respond to your comment about Pubmed. No, they don't show outright ownership, of course not. Here are two links of "research" that show why the government finally stepped in and requires doctors or any other scientists to declare who they have ties to when they write their research. Even as a nurse, when I give aromatherapy talks, I am now required to disclose that I have potential financial gain due to my website where we sell essential oils. Even among doctors and other medical people they are questioning any of the research that's been done in the past 30 years because of this.

ScienceDirect - Contemporary Clinical Trials : Pharmaceutical company funding and its consequences: A qualitative systematic review
News Media Coverage of Medication Research: Reporting Pharmaceutical Company Funding and Use of Generic Medication Names : eClips Consult

Okay - I need to actually get some work done today LO"

This last statement is something I frequently hear from folks who have an agenda to sell products to people. The standard technique is to put down the person who asked the question as a waster of her valuable time (obviously he as the questioner should not ask questions but take whatever she says on blind faith as fact). Anyway these folks like to substitute their testimonial for scientific fact. They frequently declare their is scientific research when no research has been done at all or only questionable research. If there was scientific proof with any validity they would proudly have it displayed for all to read. These types of sellers assume that testimonials are sufficient evidence for whatever claims they want to make to sell their products hard. This is what snake oil salesman used to do. This is why the public so frequently was fleeced with worthless "cures" back in the day.

Originally Posted by Janice

Thieves Kills Black Mold

[Janice]

Good Morning, I am just telling people what I use. The holes I drillled are used for pesticides my friend. Just while I was at it, I used the nebulizor by the holes
You should read the whole series of post. I do not claim that you don't have to remove the dry wall. Once again, read before you react!!
I guess I am realy rocking your morgellons world!!!! . Keep your feet on the ground, and take a deep breath. Reality is knocking !!

[Janice]

Based on your theory that I am selling oils, then I guess I sell pesticides, plumbing supplies, and have stock in a mold remidiation company as well. OH, yeah, mabey I sell dry wall too. Yeah that's me . I want to rule the world.

[tcmgpt13]

Originally Posted by Janice

Ok,
Today, I am running the nebulisor again with the thieves oil by all the drill holes to get rid of any mold.
Janice

Now that sentence by you implies that putting the thieves oil by the drill holes in the wall will kill mold. Since the holes lead into the interior walls that implication carries into the interior between the wall board and the exterior wall of the house where there could be toxic mold.

True you also did talk about pesticide use in drilled holes in the wall by people such as yourself who are very sick. Surely (I hope) you don't think that those who have Morgellons should expose themselves to pesticides by applying these pesticides themselves or even having them in their living space. Well, maybe you do, as you did it. I do not think it is very good advice though and again liability issues could be a problem.

BTW removing moldy drywall is something which is very dangerous to the people living in a house unless it is done properly. It can put all kinds of mold spores into the entire house and the vents in the house. Some types of projects require expert help.

It might be a good idea to do a little thinking about these safety issues. Oh, and the assumption you are rocking my morgellons world, well I can tell you I am not being rocked by any of this. More than a bit troubled and extremely concerned by what you write and claim about mold issues, thieves oil, pesticides and self treating a living space for mold issues, yes, but rocked? Definitely not.

Originally Posted by Janice

Good Morning, I am just telling people what I use. The holes I drillled are used for pesticides my friend. Just while I was at it, I used the nebulizor by the holes
You should read the whole series of post. I do not claim that you don't have to remove the dry wall. Once again, read before you react!!
I guess I am realy rocking your morgellons world!!!! . Keep your feet on the ground, and take a deep breath. Reality is knocking !!

[Janice]

Listen lady, I am only going to waste one more post on you! Read every thing not just about the oils. You will see my plan of attack .Why has the use of the word "oils" infuriated you so much. Have I stepped on your oil selling toes? Because you have such anger and venom in your words... one has to wonder whatyou are up to. This board does not need this very immature and suspect behavior. On with the show. Meow. (sorry couldn't help it)

[tcmgpt13]

Only you know the real answers about the issues you just raised in your post Janice. You certainly seem to get upset, even angered, by opposite viewpoints and I can only wonder why this is. BTW, just saw your next post and added it here. I am not opposed to essential oil use, but your methods and your claims for efficacy do enter into question and rightly so as there is no real scientific support for the mold claims made about Thieves Oil. There is nothing catty about saying what I have said nor is it a personal attack on you as a person. I can only go by what you said and if that angers you then again I have to wonder why.

As for being skeptical about claims (suspicious I believe was your word) here is a good quote from Buddha:

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

Probably good advice for all in this world, but especially so for those who are sick.

Originally Posted by Janice

Based on your theory that I am selling oils, then I guess I sell pesticides, plumbing supplies, and have stock in a mold remidiation company as well. OH, yeah, mabey I sell dry wall too. Yeah that's me. I want to rule the world.

Originally Posted by Janice

Listen lady, I am only going to waste one more post on you! Read every thing not just about the oils. You will see my plan of attack .Why has the use of the word "oils" infuriated you so much. Have I stepped on your oil selling toes? Because you have such anger and venom in your words... one has to wonder whatyou are up to. This board does not need this very immature and suspect behavior. On with the show. Meow. (sorry couldn't help it)

[Janice]

Last night There was still movement of the bugs, but no stinging. It is kind of like they are swarming. I am going to talk to the pesticide guy today about this. See what he comes up with. Thank you, Janice

[Baraka Obam]

Why in the world would a disease that plagues all of us be DIFFERENT, how could that be possible. It may be that the time period for this systemic disease to destroy your system has not come yet, it could be that some of us have contracted other problems because of our compromized immune system. There could be a sybiotic disease that one or another is missing, coupled with a DNA sequence that has dealt with this disease in the long ago, or not. In the case of the lesions wether or not part of the route cause disease or just a synbiotic curse when herpies meets fibrous disease, if you have any little spots that bleed, if you have any of them, they are all the same item, AND THEY WILL GROW. It seems most everyone has itching as far as I have heard.

Then there is the possibility you may have missed a symptom or ten because you are not that in tune with your body and of course every doctor you have seen says your symtoms are normal, unless you go to him saying worm that look like akiens are coming out of your eyes, then they call you crazy! One day I went to visit a member who was having some real issues, she had told me about sparkles on her skin, well I kinda wondered to myself but also felt THIS was not MY symptom, that is right up untill I saw them on her and then I remembered ho my skin would sparkle when in the sun. I felt it was just tiny beads of perspiration, the effect was enought to get my attention. My G/F at that time also had them, she had also lost hair, had dizzy spels,but untill now she has had no lesions but she does have skin situations, she was 19 at that time, she is 44 now. Does that explain anything about this disease, maybe, maybe not.

If you hunt around in your enviroment you will find millions of things, literally millions that could affect you, most likely they are natural in nature, it could be you find a sinister morgellons fungus fiber plot but in all reality these live inside you already, will it help to clean and remove everything in the house, maybe but who knows?

Myself, I know I have a undiagnosable condition disease inside me, it is ALREADY there. I am not worried at all about getting reinfected as I can see by scoping my fluids that nothing has changed in that respect, it is the same. The fibers are in me, I can easily see them with the microscope, but not without it. I will not let the fact that i am ill inside destroy what life I have left looking at each and every snow flake, grain of sand or bug. I dig in the dirt, eat the food in foreign lands, wash in their water, fly on airplanes without masks (not so sure thats the best idea) LOL, swim in the ocean and man oh man you want up close and killer microbes get into the hot water of the Gulf of Mexico it is bathtub warm. These things to my knowledge have not harmed me yet, I get steadily better, what I am getting at, just to make sure, any of you lady's want to come live with me I need a house cleaner?

The real point i would like to make, you are infested inside, don't make yourself crazy cleaning, I am not an expert on this, NOBODY is, if your really into identification, get a microscope, look at yourself and see if any of your fibers, glass shards, talon forming hooks start to disapere if you clean or become less, I think not!!!

[Janice]

I recieved a thumbs up from the pesticide guy. I have stirred up the nest, and they are looking for some where else to go. It may take a day or two more for the last of the swarming to end. This is a very good indication that what I have done with the deltadust has been effective.
If one chooses the pesticide route, I would suggest to leave for a couple of days, until it is all over. So I am thinking possitive and the next step is to get the bugs out of my body for the last time. I am doing accupucture and chinese herbs for this. Also, I appreciate
The help with the bath soak ideas.
Also, It is truly ones choice how they want to get rid of the mold, I just did not want to appear flipant or appear elitist when we are talking about large amounts of money for mold remediation. (like it is going to the store for a head of lettuce. ) Hopefuly some home owners insurance will cover this Thank you, Janice

[tcmgpt13]

It might have been better for your health, if you were planning to call a pest control guy anyway, to let him take care of any insect problems you have rather than expose yourself to them through using these products. It is not elitist to warn people about the dangers of mold removal and suggest that mold remediation is the safest way to go for serious problems.

Claiming that Thieves Oil will kill any and all mold seems irresponsible since there is no real proof it will work as claimed.

I think it is only fair to warn people about the dangers they face if they choose to treat their living spaces themselves with questionably safe pesticides (just having them introduced into the living space is not a desirable situation) or that if they decide to replace wall board themselves there are additional contamination problems which could worsen their already weak health status. People who have mold allergies have to be especially careful as do those with Morgellons. Yes, good idea, folks should check their insurance policies as sometimes there is some allowance for mold remediation.

Originally Posted by Janice

I recieved a thumbs up from the pesticide guy. I have stirred up the nest, and they are looking for some where else to go. It may take a day or two more for the last of the swarming to end. This is a very good indication that what I have done with the deltadust has been effective.
If one chooses the pesticide route, I would suggest to leave for a couple of days, until it is all over. So I am thinking possitive and the next step is to get the bugs out of my body for the last time. I am doing accupucture and chinese herbs for this. Also, I appreciate
The help with the bath soak ideas.
Also, It is truly ones choice how they want to get rid of the mold, I just did not want to appear flipant or appear elitist when we are talking about large amounts of money for mold remediation. (like it is going to the store for a head of lettuce. ) Hopefuly some home owners insurance will cover this Thank you, Janice