Interesting Theorie

[Sadsack]

2many -
Simply put, then, you believe, above other possiblities, than Morgellons is a result of multiple parasitic infections? And that you dismiss the MIT fiber analysis indicating that they are various plastics, including high density polyethylene?
This observation is not really related, but I think the hypotheses that we lean toward are largely influenced by the way the condition manifests in each of us. The variety and bizarre quality of the crap that emerged from my body has made me reach very far for explanations. Personally, I don't think this thing has much to do at all with anything that science has known before.
With the increasing introduction of man-made materials into the environment, especially the ones that mimic life, I think the answers lie somewhere in there.
Check out the background of our incoming Secretary of Energy, Steven Chu:
Secretary of Synthetic Biology | The Loom | Discover Magazine

SS

[2manyfibers]

Hey Sadsack – I personally think Morgellons has become kind of an “umbrella” term for what could be a lot of different things (or a combination of different things) that present with similar symptoms – there are many different things that can cause many of the symptoms including lesions. Obviously, as is natural with anyone (as you pointed out), I am more certain of my own experience and condition than I could ever be of anyone else’s. My thoughts are based on my own condition and extensive research of established human biology along with the descriptions other people have provided. Based on my own experience and research I am certain the body contains trillions of protein fibers naturally and the body can produce some very strange structures based on any number of things that would be considered somewhat “natural” from a biological perspective.

I personally can’t rule out there being some kind of genetic component to what has become known as Morgellons and I do think it is possible that some of the GMOs and nanotechnology could be a component of it if not a direct cause. Some GM plants have been modified to produce plastics similar to High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) as I noted in the GM crop / organophosphate thread. With the agrobacterium connection I think it is conceivable that foreign DNA could potentially cause some very strange symptoms in people including Morgellons symptoms. Some viruses can also cause mutations in DNA of organisms and some chemicals can as well from what I’ve read. Thus, I don’t think it is impossible but I think it is less likely than a somewhat “natural” if undiscovered cause would be responsible for most cases of what has become known as Morgellons.

From what I’ve read some Morgellons fibers have been identified by some researchers as being keratin and / or polysaccharides (molecular “chains” of sugars) both of which are common to the human body (for instance glucosamine and chondroitin are polysaccharides that are found in the normal cellular skin “matrix”). The “keratin bridge” associated with a nematode referenced in my last post is a good example of “strange structures” that use ‘natural” materials from the body I think. I have also read that Dr. Staniger reported that MIT had identified some fibers as being HDPE. I realize that many people including yourself have a lot of faith in Dr. Staniger’s work so what I am about to say is not intended to be offensive to anyone – it is just my own personal opinion based on my own observations. I don’t dismiss the idea that some of the fibers sent to MIT could be HDPE. However, I personally don’t have a lot of confidence in Dr. Staniger’s work for a number of reasons (again, my own opinion).

One thing I noted from reading her reports is that she collected samples from many different people, apparently by having different people send her samples in the mail. My problem with this approach is that it doesn’t appear that any real scientific criteria was used to collect the samples – people could basically send in anything that they thought might be a sample of “Morgellons related” material. People could have sent in samples that were from lesions or not from lesions, samples they had stored for months or years, things they collected from their environment (which they may have perceived to be related to Morgellons whether it actually was or not), etc. Without some pretty strict protocols established on how to collect samples and validate that they were actually “true” Morgellons samples (like material removed from a fresh lesion using sterilized instruments and placed in a sterile container under medical supervision, etc.) it would really be impossible to truly validate if the samples sent in actually had anything to do with Morgellons or not. For instance, some people have pulled fibers from lesions and later the fibers were determined to be from textiles – the people really believed at the time that those particular fibers were coming from their body but after more experience and consideration, they realized the fibers had actually come from a piece of clothing they wore. To me this shows the difficulty in identifying things that are not collected using some very strict scientific protocols to eliminate contamination or simple errors in what is called a “sample”.

I have read that Dr. Staniger or someone else seemed to believe this HDPE came from fiber optic cables. I haven’t found anything to tell me why they believe this. I personally have my doubts about that because fiber optic cable is made from ultra pure glass – not plastic (although some cheap, very short-length connector cables are occasionally made from plastic for use to connect equipment together that is installed next to each other where signal strength is not a concern – these cables aren’t used as much in recent years based on my experience). Optical glass fiber does have a “jacket” to cover the glass and some types do use HDPE as the jacketing material but other types of materials are more prevalent. Thus, I’m not certain where the idea that the HDPE came from fiber optic cable came from.

One thing I noticed is that most “Ziploc” bags are made of HDPE and I would hazard a guess that many samples sent in the mail used these bags as the container for samples. Of course this is just speculation on my part, but I would think there is a pretty strong possibility that even if the samples sent in were directly from lesions, they could have been “contaminated” by other things like the “baggies” (sometimes if you look closely at a plastic bag you can find small plastic fibers on the edges left over from the manufacturing process). Thus, while I can’t completely dismiss the MIT testing, I do have my own doubts about the validity of the conclusions drawn from it.

Again, I’m not trying to offend you or anyone else here. My own personal belief is that most cases of what people to believe is Morgellons likely has a fairly “natural” cause – despite all the knowledge they currently have, there is far more that medical science and doctors really don’t have any idea about that can occur from nutrient deficiencies / imbalances, parasites and many other things. Again, I don’t have any way to know the specific things many people suffer with and I think they could vary greatly from person to person depending on many things including exposure to chemicals, genetics, etc. Thus, like all Morgellons theories at this point I have no proof that my theory is correct. However, I think that what I’ve presented could have application to most cases and I think it can plausibly explain the symptoms of Morgellons in most cases if not all cases. Hopefully for everyone’s sake there will be a breakthrough in the research soon that will eliminate the need for any theoretical conjecture.

On another note, trying to be an optimist, the news from the link you posted could be worse ………….at least Dr. Chu wasn’t appointed as the head of Health and Human Services (and the FDA)

[tcmgpt13]

For those who may not have read this thread I would like to repost this excellent thread discussion started by our own 2manyfibers about GMO foods, organophosphates and Morgellons. It is a great thread about this subject:

GM crops, organophosphates and Morgellons: is there a connection?

I was just rereading a post I made last year and felt it was pertinent to some of the discussion here so I am linking to it, again for those who may not have already read it. This post leans more towards discussing a possible viral/drug connection as it pertains to GMO foods:

Mulling over herpes viruses and their connection to Morgellons

As you say 2mf, there are just so very many questions and so few (any) answers right now. Still the possibilities are enormous that GMO foods, including those being raised as "food vaccines and drugs," are involved in the morgellons puzzle which, on the days we feel less than well and find ourselves swimming in a sea of fog, seems more fiasco than puzzle.

[whatthehelminth]

Hi 2manyfibers, You are so smart! I have read this before and its a good thing because I can't seem to even finish reading a paragraph of anything today.
Or I guess it would of been yesterday when I started trying to read.
(
Wish I had a magic wand to wave over everyone to get rid of this nightmare.
Thanks you and everyone for your continued patience with me?
luv ya, wth

[Sadsack]

2many -
I think there is a little confusion about the collection of the fibers. The process you are describing is what Dr. Wymore did - soliciting from people around the country.
Dr. Staninger's initial studies utilizing MIT, Lambda, and other labs were conducted on fibers from under Jan Smith's knee cap. The fibers were removed by the surgeons who did the knee surgery, and were sent by them in a manner appropriate under the circumstances (not zip lock bags).
But switching back to Dr. Wymore, don't forget that, despite the random manner that these samples were sent in to him, they were all similar to each other, and did NOT match any of the 880 textile fibers in the FBI database. Furthermore, when the chemical composition was compared to the FBI database, it did not match any of the 90,000 substances.
These two scientists do not work together at all, have very different views and backgrounds, but they both agree that the fibers are unique and unknown.
Dr. Staninger describes different structures made from different substances. She has found that many of them are silicon and silicone. As you are well aware, these substances are used in fiber optics and in many electronic and technological applications.
A blood level of 0.05 silicon is considered toxic. Mine was 0.37 (a year ago). I am having it re-tested next week.
SS

[Baraka Obam#2]

I can only imagine it is being used in food, or the containers or both. With the melamine scare from China in the food we found out that it is a USDA approved additive in the USA FOOD!!!! Would they use other garbage in our boxed food stuffs, certainly they will. The Chinese only showed us that too much poison plastic will kill us, we showed them to use it. What ever happened to glass!!!!

[Kritters]

funny you should say that, BO....

It has been on my mind for the last few weeks for some strange reason. Glass vs. plastic. Most people don't realize that plastic permeates itself into any foodstuff contained inside the plastic.

But...oh well

[2manyfibers]

Hey Sadsack – The information I based my post above on regarding the collection and testing “procedures was posted by Dr. Staninger on Rense.com. The link below (with an excerpt) discusses that when the HDPE was identified, it came from samples apparently sent to Dr. Staninger through the mail (which I would assume at least a large portion of them were contained in plastic “Ziploc” bags). The specific lab used for this test wasn't identified in the report. One of the reports on that web page actually states that “A stick was used by the individual to collect the specimens. They were then placed in a plastic ziplock bag and saved for future analysis.” The report mentions that Dr. Staninger had consulted with the patient that the HDPE was associated with in FL (apparently at an earlier time – her office is in CA) – the HDPE was said to be part of a piece of “skin” that “fell” off the patient’s foot (apparently picked up off the floor by the patient and mailed to Dr. Staninger).

All the “reports” shown on this site list MIT as one of several “labs’ that could have been used for general testing (every sample tested has the same list of “labs” that may or may not have been used to perform the referenced testing on individual samples). However, this section of the report provides no indication it was actually MIT that did the testing on the sample that was determined to be HDPE – the “report” simply says the fibers were sent to “the laboratory” whichever one that happened to be (my guess is that she would have noted it if it was MIT that did this specific analysis – she specifically noted MIT in the last report on the page). Here’s the link and excerpts:

Morgellons #7

INTEGRATIVE HEALTH INTERNATIONAL, LLC
12235 Centralia Street, Lakewood, CA 90715
Tel: 562-402-7300 Fax: 562-402-7308 Direct: 213-382-2786
Project Contract Labs: AMDL, Inc., ACS, Inc., MIT, and Lambda Solutions, Inc.

PHASE I (Part B) Samples from Sept. 1, 2007.
Results Received: February 5, 2007

Subject: Samples of Unknown Fibers Collected form Many Sources and Delivered to Laboratory.

INTRODUCTION

Several batches of unknown suspect fibers were sent to the laboratory over a period of several weeks. We were asked to examine them, study them microscopically, determine some physical properties, and run elemental analysis by energy dispersive spectroscopy (EDS) and chemical groups by Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR). Also some samples would be analyzed by Fourier transform Raman spectroscopy (FT-Raman).

Laboratory personnel would also compare the fibers with some other nanofibers reported to be carbon-silicon fibers with photoluminescent and other properties.

NOTE: All Samples were compared to the "Goldenhead" as found by Dr. Rahim Karjoo and Dr. Hildegarde Staninger (October 28, 2006) and a fiber that was identified as High Density Polyethylene Fiber (HDPE).

The following results specifically address the tests performed on the High Density Poly-ethylene (HDPE) fiber from a patient of Dr. Staninger's whom she consulted with at IntroCell, LLC, Pensacola, FL. The specimen sample was from a piece of skin that fell from "BB's" foot Sample No. 12938-A. Sample No. 12938-1 and 12938-3 will be addressed for SEM/EDS data.

RESULTS

3) A FTIR spectrum of one spot on the fiber indicated the presence of high density polyethylene fiber plus a trace of another material (brown gel). Fiber size 0.8 um and a melting point of 115 degrees C.


Sample 12938-A "BB"

The specimen shows carbon and oxygen present with the EDS test. The other elements were to minimal to be detected. The specimen was tested with Raman Test and found to be High Density Polyethylene Fiber (HDPE) with a trace of another compound. The other compounds have not been identified. Its Melting Point is 115 degrees C with a 0.8 um length.

I could find only one of the samples where it was specifically stated that MIT (the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute) tested it and they couldn’t identify whatever the substance was (which really only means that it was something that wasn’t in their test database when you think about it). The information states it was a “fiber” from a meteorite so it doesn’t seem too surprising to me that it might not be in the Oceanographic Institutes database. There is no information to indicate why Dr. Staninger considered a fiber from a meteorite to be a “suspect” Morgellon’s fiber.


PHASE III-B Samples sent Sept. 2006.
Results Received March 20, 2007

Subject: L/N: 12938 A series of specimens. These are the RAMAN TESTS.

Two Samples of Unknown Fibers were Collected from Two Sources and Delivered to Laboratory.

Report of: Examination and Fourier Transform-Raman Spectra of Two Suspects

Morgellon Fibers Sent by Integrative Health International, LLC.
Method: Fourier Transform Raman Spectroscopy (FT-Raman).

INTRODUCTION

Two similar samples (No. 12938-1 and No. 12938-7) of suspect fibers were previously studied and reported in Phase I PROJECT: FMM Report. In the present report various laboratories (Lambda Solutions, Inc. and MIT's Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution) would analyze these two samples by Fourier Transform Raman Spectroscopy to learn more about their chemical structures. Both fibers were suspect Morgellons and would be examined for Raman structural groups to attempt identification of the material(s). Sample No. 12938-1 would be sent to Lambda Solutions, Inc. and Sample No. 12938-7 would be sent to MIT's Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

Sample No. 12938-7 is described in Phase I Report as a container with fibers in rubber band and Labeled INC-7-19-06 PR FRESS. The sample is from a meteorite. Specimen was tested for melting point. No melting occurred but it darkened at 200 degrees with no dichroism.

1. The Raman bands that were identified for Sample 12938-7 were:

* C-C (aromatic ring chain vibrations)
* C=C vibrations
* Si-C vibrations

2. No silicon was present.

3. MIT could not make "guess" as to what the fiber is made of per staff.

One of the other things I noted on most of the samples shown on this webpage was that most of them contained a high percentage of sulfur (which is the base ingredient that collagens and keratins are produced from) along with other things like carbon, silica (which is also a normal component of collagens and keratins) and oxygen. It seems to me that a lot of what she determined the fibers to be made of indicates that much of the material could well be mostly substances that are natural to the human body.

From what I can gather, Jan Smith’s samples appeared to be silicone / silicon based. Here’s a link to her website discussing this along with a brief excerpt:

Jan Smith's Letter Regarding Nanotech Diseases AKA Morgellon's

I have had two knee replacements in the past three years. When the first knee was replaced, the incision did not heal properly and grew lesions on the scar that were filled with fibers. A year later the second knee was replaced and this time, Concord Hospital in Concord, New Hampshire made a series of pathology slides for Dr. Hildegarde Staninger who was at that time already researching Morgellon’s disease. She sent my pathology slides to Dr. Rahim Karjoo who made the following findings, which were later made public. The silicon and silicone photos are from my body. I have never had any implants or injections of silicone in my body. This silicon is a result of silicon-based nanotechnology.

I noted that these samples were from a second knee replacement. Some implants for knee replacements contain silicone components (particularly articular cartilage replacements) and some bone “cements” used in some knee replacements are also silicone based. I had an experimental artificial ligament in my knee for a short while made from GoreTex and when I had to have it removed (rejection) the biopsies of the surrounding tissue showed GoreTex (where the material had shed from the implant). An autopsy performed on another patient with this GoreTex implant (died in an auto accident) noted that GoreTex was present in his lymph nodes (this was one of the major reasons the GoreTex ligament was never approved for use by the FDA). Thus, I would suspect that the materials used in the joint replacement surgery could very well be the source of the silicone in Jan’s case. Here is some information on how silicone and polyethylene are used in artificial knee joints:

Types of Replacement Parts

Replacements for hip and knee joints include portions made from metal, such as stainless steel, titanium or chrome and cobalt alloys. Other portions are made of a strong, durable plastic called polyethylene.

Frequently Asked Questions About Silicone Poisoning

18. I have not had any breast implants, yet I still have many of the symptoms you list in your symptoms, how can that be?

This can happen because all injectable needles are coated with silicone for easier injection into the skin. Many body replacement parts such as hip and knee replacement joints are coated with silicone. It depends on your personal response to any amount of silicone. Lipstick has silicone in the ingredients. I suffer severe allergic reactions from Pledge Furniture Polish. Take the time to read the ingredients of any products you use, including beauty products.

[2manyfibers]

Hey TCM and WTH - thanks for the kind words. I sure am glad to see that you are back up to posting again WTH - we missed ya and I know a lot of prayers were sent up for ya. Glad to have ya back!

[Sadsack]

2many -
The FIRST FIBER analysis was from under Jan's knee cap in 2006. They were sent to MIT Woods Hole. Subsequent to that Dr. S. had many samples from different sources analyzed by different labs, including Dr. Karjoo's. The sample picked up with a stick was from chemtrail fallout. Dr. S was asked to examine the meteorite and she determined that the fibers on the meteorite were from contamination (i.e., someone who had handled it). The reason for that determination is because the necessary elements to create the fibers were not available in the meteorite. Remember, to build anything, the raws materials have to be present. As plastics are made from petroleum, that is the reason we should avoid petreochemicals at all cost. Morgellons needs petro to build it's stuff.
You did not address why I would be 7 times more toxic for silicon than the standard cutoff for toxicity at 0.05 (being 0.37). I have not had any replacement surgery or implants.
Having had some injections and blood draws in my life could never result in such a high level of toxicity.
I want to mention here that I seldom guess at these things, and when I do, I present it as such. I believe the answers (if they ever come) will come from the SCIENTISTS. So I read as much as I can about Morgellons research. And, of course, must go off and do further research just to try to understand the studies!
I also research related topics, such as nanotechnology, GMO food, synthetic biology, agrobacterium, etc in order to try to understand.
If anyone ever really cracks this thing, it sure won't be a self-styled scientist. It is going to take a team of top notch researchers with varied backgrounds, including microbiology, physiology, chemistry, biochemistry, toxicology, and others.
SS