Pseudomonas aeruginosa--Morgellons Co-Infection?

[tcmgpt13]

Could Pseudomonas aeruginosa be behind more than one of our lesions? I have been treating a lesion on my leg. I am now getting out something which looks like a faint greenish blue pus. This led me to wonder what could cause this particular hue. A search on the internet pointed me to this particular bacteria. There are a few posts which mention this bacteria on the forum, one of which ties this to agrobacterium. This particular bacteria is a real problem with those who have cystic fibrosis. Burn patients and those with lowered immune systems have problems with it too. Here is an old post from Suzie38 (miss her and her posts) and tells about some research on agrobacterium which was done at Hiram College:

2003 Agrobacterium found in humans..interesting


"Some pathogens—by definition, microorganisms that cause disease—have the uncanny ability to infect a wide range of living things. For example, one notorious opportunistic pathogen, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, can infect plants, insects, and humans."

Here is some of what I have been learning about this bacteria:

Pseudomonas aeruginosa definition - eMedicineHealth - Consumer First Aid and Health Information

"Pseudomonas normally resides in the soil, marshes, and coastal marine habitats. It can survive under conditions that few other organisms can tolerate, it produces a slime layer that resists phagocytosis (engulfment), and it is resistant to most antibiotics. Pseudomonas can multiply in an extraordinary assortment of environments including eyedrops, soaps, sinks, anesthesia and resuscitation equipment, fuels, humidifiers and even stored distilled water. It has also been reported in kidney dialysis machines. The characteristic color of the pus is due to a bluish pigment (pyocyanin) and a greenish pigment produced by pseudomonas."

According to this Wikepedia aritcle Pseudomonas aeruginosa can produce a myriad of colors from pigments found in it including a red-brown. Is also has a fluorescent capability:

Pseudomonas aeruginosa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"P. aeruginosa secretes a variety of pigments, including pyocyanin (blue-green), fluorescein (yellow-green and fluorescent, now also known as pyoverdin), and pyorubin (red-brown)."

Here is one reason it is so difficult to control and treat:

"Although classified as an aerobic organism, P. aeruginosa is considered by many as a facultative anaerobe as it is well adapted to proliferate in conditions of partial or total oxygen depletion."

The bacteria is particularly resistant to antibiotics:

"resistant to a large range of antibiotics and may demonstrate additional resistance after unsuccessful treatment, particularly through modification of a porin. It should usually be possible to guide treatment according to laboratory sensitivities, rather than choosing an antibiotic empirically. If antibiotics are started empirically, then every effort should be made to obtain cultures and the choice of antibiotic used should be reviewed when the culture results are available."

Antibiotics that have activity against P. aeruginosa include:

" * aminoglycosides (gentamicin, amikacin, tobramycin);
* quinolones (ciprofloxacin and levofloxacin but not moxifloxacin)
* cephalosporins (ceftazidime, cefepime, cefpirome, but not cefuroxime, ceftriaxone, cefotaxime)
* ureidopenicillins (piperacillin, ticarcillin: P. aeruginosa is intrinsically resistant to all other penicillins)
* carbapenems (meropenem, imipenem, but not ertapenem)
* polymyxins (polymyxin B and colistin)[24]
* monobactams (aztreonam)

These antibiotics must all be given by injection, with the exception of fluoroquinolones. For this reason, in some hospitals, fluoroquinolone use is severely restricted in order to avoid the development of resistant strains of P. aeruginosa. In the rare occasions where infection is superficial and limited (for example, ear infections or nail infections) topical gentamicin or colistin may be used."

" Antibiotic resistance

Pseudomonas aeruginosa is a highly relevant opportunistic pathogen. One of the most worrisome characteristics of P. aeruginosa consists is its low antibiotic susceptibility. This low susceptibility is attributable to a concerted action of multidrug efflux pumps with chromosomally-encoded antibiotic resistance genes and the low permeability of the bacterial cellular envelopes. In addition to this intrinsic resistance, P. aeruginosa easily develops acquired resistance either by mutation in chromosomally-encoded genes or by the horizontal gene transfer of antibiotic resistance determinants. Development of multidrug resistance by P. aeruginosa isolates requires several different genetic events that include acquisition of different mutations and/or horizontal transfer of antibiotic resistance genes. Hypermutation favours the selection of mutation-driven antibiotic resistance in P. aeruginosa strains producing chronic infections, whereas the clustering of several different antibiotic resistance genes in integrons favors the concerted acquisition of antibiotic resistance determinants. Some recent studies have shown that phenotypic resistance associated to biofilm formation or to the emergence of small-colony variants may be important in the response of P. aeruginosa populations to antibiotics treatment.[11]"

Some comments from Robertalouise, who was diagnosed with this type of infection in her ear:

morgellons message board

"I was abit unhappy about that as I wanted her to investigate further down the ear canal. Well swab came back and I have PSEUDOMONAS AERUGINOSA It is an opportuniictic human pathogen. I was shocked when I read about it on the internet. they even had two pics one of little red like dashes and white ones that look like a capsle. I can identify very quickly with the red ones. I do find lots of the white things but obviously they are much much smaller than the pic. I do hope that everyone at Morgellons will look this up and make their own decisions about it. Something I have been concerned about for all this time is that my dogs have had this. So I typed it into google Did Pseudomonas aeruginosa affect dogs. Well yes it does, it breeds in animals coats. So I looked up the treatment for dogs and this is what I got. Skin lesions were not visible and the hair coat normal. Blackwell synergy Vet Dermatol is a very special species of bacteria It can be treated with Topical silver salfadiazine, fluorquinolones or cephalexin There is a volume 17 issue 6 page 432-439 I think that, that applies to the Blackwell Synergy Vet Dermatol. Know I can go to the Vet armed with information and I hope that it gives hope to the many dog owners on this board."

This is bacteria may not be the cause of morgellons, but perhaps it could be one of the opportunist co-infections and might even be the pigment source for some of the colors folks are finding in the fibers.

Here is an abstract originally posted by Jo about a study done which may lead to way to treatments for this type of infection without antibiotics:

Abstract | 1471-2180-8-111 | Lethal photosensitization of wound-associated microbes using indocyanine green and near-infrared light

[Additional note from originator of this thread: Please note I do not agree with most of the wild speculations about this bacteria being added to this resurrected thread nearly a year later. While it is perhaps a part of a co-infection picture for some people it may not even be a part of morgellons for others. Unless a swab is done in the lesion (as was done with Robertalouise), there is no way to know for sure what infections are involved in the lesions. In my own case treating the viral infections that accompany my symptoms is helping enormously to alleviate lesions (no new ones). We are all different and the infections we may have may also vary. Also no one here is qualified to say that anything is or is not Morgellons]

[jonsi]

Thank you, tcm for this informative post!

It will take me a while to read and absorb all the info here, but I think it is well worthwhile.

Itwl,
~jonsi

[Kritters]

Hey TC...
I just realized I posted on that from a flurry of research...

PSEUDOMONAS-FLORESCENS

Yeah...I think it is worth investigating!
Kritts

[Kritters]

Just reading about the Manuka honey. Just what is that Manuka factor? What is in that honey that makes it different than other grades/types? Is it the level of hydrogen peroxide?

Also, what exactly is medicinal grade honey? what makes it medicinal compared to regular honey. Did the bees go to medical school? ;-) (tee hee)

Kritts

[tcmgpt13]

Well, you might like this page Kritts where medihoney is described and is evidently effective against more strains of bacteria than is manuka honey as it is a blend of honeys. I could only access part three of this article with a google link, which is why I have copied the entire page.

medscape.com/viewarticle/565016_3
Discussion

The findings of the present study add to the body of evidence and clearly demonstrate that honey has a valuable therapeutic role to play in wound care, often where modern approaches have failed.[2]

There are a number of in-vitro studies that have shown the effectiveness of medical honeys on antibiotic resistant organisms, such as MRSA and P aeruginosa.[5,11]

Although there is variability between MICs reported for similar organisms using nonstandardized honeys with different bacterial potencies, there was generally good correlation between the present findings and those of other researchers[11,12] for gram-positive organisms (MRSA, VRE). In the present study, all strains of MRSA, including both resistant phenotypes of MRSA as well as sensitive strains of S aureus, were inhibited at low antibacterial honey concentrations (4% v/v). These data compare favorably with the earlier data from George et al[13] comparing medical honeys obtained from New Zealand and Australia Leptospermum sources and those of Cooper et al[14] (3% v/v), Blair5 (4.3% v/v), and Allen et al[12] (3%-7% v/v).

For VRE, the inhibition profiles of antibacterial honey varied between 6%-8% v/v depending on the species. Favorable comparisons can again be made with 3.8%-10% v/v ranges reported by Cooper et al[11] and Allen et al.[12]

There is a paucity of good comparative data for in-vitro assessment of antibacterial activity of medical honeys against gram-negative organisms other than P aeruginosa. Gram-positive aerobic cocci, (eg, beta-hemolytic streptococci and S aureus) may be considered as primary pathogens often infecting chronic wounds in the earlier stages of wound formation. With delayed healing, wounds are more likely to be colonized by gram-negative coliforms, Pseudomonas species, and anaerobic bacteria. Infections in wounds of longer duration may be considered to be polymicrobial (aerobes and anaerobes). For the multiresistant gram-negative organisms other than P aeruginosa investigated in the present study, the majority of the 3 different species tested were inhibited at antibacterial honey concentrations of 6% v/v with all strains inhibited by 8% v/v. Likewise, antibacterial honey concentrations of 8% v/v were required to inhibit the more resistant Acinetobacter strains. Given the high levels of antibiotic resistance demonstrated in this group of organisms, the low MIC[90]values clearly suggest that antibacterial honey has the potential to be an effective alternative antibacterial agent in vivo even with up to a 10- fold dilution of the preparation.

Surprisingly, inhibitory concentrations in the order of 12%-14% v/v for P aeruginosa with antibacterial honey were found. This contrasts with the earlier work of George et al[13] where Australian and New Zealand Leptospermum honeys were shown to effectively inhibit the growth of more than 100 clinical strains of this organism at concentrations of 5%-6% v/v. Similar potency against P aeruginosa (4%-9% v/v) has been reported by Cooper et al.[14] The findings of the present study highlight the variability of the antibacterial potency of different honeys. Medihoney combines honeys of differing antibacterial actions. The wide range of MICs reported when comparing different honeys against the same class of microorganism illustrate the differences in antibacterial potency that may be encountered between honeys.[15] This underlines the value of using a standardized medical grade honey preparation that demonstrates consistent antibacterial activity against a broad range of microorganisms.

In an in-vitro study comparing the antibacterial activity of 13 honeys including 3 commercial honeys of manuka, Medihoney Antibacterial Honey, and Rewarewa against E coli and P aeruginosa, only Medihoney and one beekeeper honey demonstrated inhibition of both organisms at 2.5% wt/v dilution.[16]

Cooper et al[11] investigated the sensitivity of gram-positive cocci to honey. Eighteen strains of MRSA, 7 strains of vancomycin sensitive enterococci isolated from wounds, and 17 strains of vancomycin resistant enterococci were isolated from hospital environmental surfaces. The mean MIC values of manuka and pasture honey (with peroxide activity) were 3.0% and 3.1%, respectively, for MRSA strains. Mean MICs of honey for vancomycin-sensitive enterococci isolated from infected wounds were 4.9% (manuka) and 9.7% (pasture). Similar values were recorded for vancomycin-resistant enterococci— mean MICs for manuka and pasture were 4.6% and 8.3% (v/v), respectively.

Here is a New Zealand site which claims to sell medical grade honey:

SummerGlow® Apiaries : Superior certified Active UMF16+ Manuka Honey natural ulcer, wound, digestive treatment

[Kritters]

Thanks TC...
I still don't see what they are saying makes honey "medicinal grade" What's V/V? What's MIC (microbial?) What is the bee getting and using to produce medicinal grade rather than farm grade honey?

In any case.......the valued properties and obvious curative powers of medicinal honey sure do explain why the bees are strangely disappearing now. Just who the f**k is the evil scientific entity behind this decimation of humanity?

Kritts

[Jo]

Hi Tcm, Kritts and all,

Good thread and research - I like it alot. Amazing that it can produce those coloured pigments.

I think it could well be a co-infection with morgellons.

I've had a look at Daniel Van Eeeden's morg research (nickname Tamtam). He mentions Pseudomonas aeruginosa (strain PAO1), in this DNA research. Dont ask me to explain what this page actually means, because I'm not too sure:

http://silentsuperbug-blast.blogspot.com/http://silentsuperbug-blast.blogspot.com/

So I looked at Pseudomonas aeruginosa PAO1.

'According to the complete gene sequence of P. aeruginosa PAO1, it has an nqr
operon that encodes the Na+-translocating NADHquinone oxidoreductase—the respiratory-dependent primary Na+ pump. This pump has been found mainly among marine bacteria and is considered to offer advantageous energy transduction in saline environments.'
http://www.springerlink.com/content/xtkh420344pdldth/http://www.springerlink.com/content/xtkh420344pdldth/

So its got strong marine connections.

P aeruginosa is often found in Cystic Fibrosis sufferers. In this study they thought that the bacteria came from the environment, but I don't believe scientists know why P aeruginosa and CF have such a close association:

Epidemiology of Pseudomonas aeruginosa in Cystic Fibrosis in British Columbia, Canada -- Speert et al. 166 (7): 988 -- American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine

They have also possibly found agrobacterium in CF patients:
Novel Bacterium Isolated from a Lung Transplant Patient with Cystic Fibrosis -- Pitulle et al. 37 (12): 3851 -- Journal of Clinical Microbiology

If morgellons and other 'Fibro' conditions have common factors, it makes me wonder if at some point the dots will join.

Anyway, I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the band aids Tcm!

Jo xxx

[Kritters]

Hey Joey,
You know, I had a relative through my ex who had cystic fibrosis. She was an amazingly sweet and wonderful girl who died when she turned 21. If there are such things as angels, she was surely one. I know chances were supposedly increased if the mother and father had the genes to predispose. However I never understood how a mother and father could have genetic predisposition to this if it is a rather rare disease. then there are the odds of the second child being born with it if the first has it.

Just how stupid are they anyway? Obviously it's a pathogen that is passed from the mother at birth. So, when you become a doctor in this country, do you have to swear an oath that you'll be freaking clueless when it comes to reality?

Just today I got a call from a man who I used to recommend for handiman looking for business. His wife left the church employment position last year because she had these lesions and the doctors said she was bitten by a spider and the serum is probably causing her problems.

Naturally, since I was just getting into this, and considered it divine providence for her that I happen to read the email, I contacted her and tried to help.

Well, she said that praying to Jesus got rid of the lesions that day. Which could be true or not. I'm not here to judge.

Now, I asked how she was doing and he said she didn't have anymore lesions but her muscles are affected. The doctors don't know what it is or what to give her.

duhh.

I asked, what in the hell are people paying doctors for if they don't have answers?

He agreed.

But I guess I shouldn't have used the word hell.

xoxo
Kritts

[Jo]

Hey Kritts,

One of my buddies brother died of CF at 21 too. They can test for the carrying gene.

Sounds like you did your best with the lady with the lesions. Tricky one hey.

Joey xxx

[Kritters]

yeah.
How sad that they think doctors are gods, huh?
xoxo
Kritts