Dr. Wymore's Comment About Agrobacterium

[fracty]

In Sunny's thread talking about how great the recent M Conference was Sunny mentions:

Dr. Wymore reported that an agrobacteria study DID NOT significatenly reveal agro as a prime vector.

This appears to be referring to the work of Dr. Citovsky. However, I am hesitant to dismiss these findings for several reasons.

First "significant" results from a clinical research standpoint would require bigger numbers. If I remember correctly it was only 9 M people and I am not sure how many non-M ppl tested. Absolutely those numbers are not big enough to be truly "significant."

It would require additional, carefully designed research trying to replicate the same results over and over in large numbers. Nevertheless, according to what I had read initially, every single M person tested positive, and those w/out M did not. These are very provocative findings that indicate the results WOULD be significant if formal studies were set up involving larger numbers.

So, you have to keep that in mind when hearing or reading a word like "significant" when it comes to research.

Also, Sunny says Dr. Wymore said Dr. Citovsky's request for a grant to further study the M/Agrobac connection was turned down.

I would have been shocked if he had obtained the grant. The people who are giving him the money (whether gov or private) would all have a vested interest in NOT finding out/releasing any negative health risk related to Agrobacterium. These are all entities who are hoping to find ways to make money from its use.


Also, Sunny quotes the phrase, " prime vector." Personally, I have never thought the AG was a "prime" vector, but that it is the glue that merges the infecting agents w our DNA, etc. So the infections in a infected plant cut or a bite merging w the AG, and one other thing (I believe) makes the ugly monster M, IMO.

Basically, this comment does not rule out that possibility. Now, I am happy if someone finds out what this is with 100% accuracy. I don't care if it is AG one way or the other, but i care about KNOWING ASAP. So I post this, because based on this comment, and the way he used those technical terms I still feel very stongly the AG is a significant factor in what is happening, and something we need to keep pursuing in hopes of getting well, getting this exposed.

Good news they are talking about htese things!!!!!!!!!!!

[fracty]

Oops! I forgot to add, I have read various reports, etc where Dr. Citovsky seemed to indicate he thought the results were something that promised to lead to significant results when the proper numbers were tested.

At the same time, I cannot imagine any other outcome but that every single agency, company, etc who has ever funded or ever will fund any of his research would dump him like a hot, stinky potato the second he started pursuing research in this area that would only hurt their business interests and literally cost them money, maybe even lawsuits. Obviously, no one would support any further research by this guy. He would be black balled (hot, stinky, rotten, banned, potato/ former researcher - now unfunded and jobless).

[jonsi]

Hi fracty,

Isn't Dr. C from SUNY? Mark Darrah spoke for Dr. C (as his assistant) at the '08 Austin convention & had the most info to share, IMHO. Soon after, he was banned from using SUNY's equipment. Anyone know what happened to Mark Darrah? I hope he is ok. (look at old posts from'08 convention)
************************************************** ****
IMHO:
~Of course Dr. Wymore isn't going to agree that agrobacteriun has anything to do with "Morgellons". TSU is an agriculture college Home
Monsanto controls agriculture. Millions Against Monsanto Campaign - Organic Consumers Association Oh yeah, Dr. Wymore is a PhD... a scientist... don't pay attention to the non-PhD's...

~Even tho it wasn't taped or shown on the '08 conference tape that CHF sold, I distinctly remember hearing that Striker said that agrobacterium was not involved. Yeah, right... he said it!!!

Fracty, you got me riled up here! I forgot about all of the disinformation I received at that "camp". Like food and GMO's, pesticides, preservatives, have nothing to do with "M". HAHA, bs

These people are in the pharmaceutical/agriculture fields... Where would they make a living 100 years ago without big pharma or Monsanto?

I have never taken a pharmaceutical drug (anti-biotic, anti-fungal, anti-parisitical etc...) to fight "M". I try to eat foods that are not processed, without preservatives, non-GMO, no soda drinks, etc... I'm pretty healthy now, I've lost 70 pounds. No "M" symptoms except for small lesions... I'm editing my post to add that antibiotics are necessary to fight infections, but I never had an infection with "M" diseases. So if you have an infection, antibiotics are probably necessary.

I've said this all before on this site... two years ago.

I don't think their camp is having the same results that us homeopathic/natural followers are experiencing. Somehow, I doubt it.

Peace! In the white light,
~jonsi

[fracty]

Yes, Dr. Citovsky is from SUNY.

He was one I was so hopeful about initially. I was just hanging in there until he got his in depth research going. But now, apparently, he tries to discourage all ties between himself and the former M research he did.

I agree w you about the conflicts of interest on all sides. There are more conflicts even than the ones we listed here.

Also, I agree w you that every person who has contracted M should avoid all unhealthy, processed food, etc. I disagree w you about completely avoiding antibiotics. But that's neither here nor there for this thread tho. We both agree on the healthy food part, but have that one area of disagreement.

Also, we agree on the important point of this thread. Even from a scientific standpoint the verbiage Dr. Wymore used (at least as in the quote) does not rule out the Agrobacterium connection at all. In fact, to me the wording reinforces the connection even more strongly.

I hope some ppl will keep investigating this area until we have solid answers!

[fracty]

Mark Darrah spoke for Dr. C (as his assistant) at the '08 Austin convention & had the most info to share, IMHO. Soon after, he was banned from using SUNY's equipment.

This is very interesting. First I am not surprised that even tho Dr. C was investigating he might want to keep that under cover until/if he had definitive results from a clinical standpoint. The academic world is very quick to scoff/outcast. Anyone who takes us seriously loses credibility in the scientific world just like Pasteur did when he came up w germ theory.

Second point of interest, the people paying for the actual equipment would in all likelihood be the same ones who are using the Agrobacterium in their products - companies like Monsanto and those associated w them.

[jonsi]

Thanks fracty,

Most people disagree with me on the antibiotics and I should stop being so hard about the subject. (Perhaps I didn't have a bad infection going through this?) My dad was a DDS & prescribed antibiotics every day. I should probably delete the antibiotics part from my last post. You're right on.

~jonsi

[fracty]

Well, if it came up again I was just going to move it over to a new thread titled, "The Battle of Whether or Not to Use Antibiotics." lol Then we can really battle it out.

But for this thread, let's keep it about Agrobacterium as it relates to Dr. Wymore's recent comment.

[jonsi]

Back to subject: Agrobacterium

[fracty]

No problemo. No need to change things. I just hope other ppl will read the Wymore/Agrobacterium part and contribute any info they know and/or keep pursuing that avenue of research.

[kmar]

Fracty,

Sunny said that it was Dr. Stricker who was told by Dr. Citovsky about no funding.

Dr. Stricker has always been the one who believes in pursueing the AGRO angle. Wymore has never thought it was it.

Your right, he could very well have been talking about the one Agro study that Citovsky did.

The words appear to be carefully chosen to lead one away from agrobacteria.

Kmar